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JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#160851: Dec 7th 2016 at 10:02:59 AM

Comrade Olbermann is right. The Carrier was just a stupid and nasty con disguised as a "deal", aka the Trump School of Trade, and all he did was throw the economy under the bus for his own ego.

Shippudentimes Since: Dec, 2012
#160852: Dec 7th 2016 at 10:03:56 AM

How long 'til Trump's cabinet turns into a compilation of the worst parts of Sheila Broflovski with a dash of Randy Marsh?

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#160853: Dec 7th 2016 at 10:08:41 AM

Not sure I get the reference, but if I parse out the implications...I'd say it's already happened.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#160854: Dec 7th 2016 at 10:10:12 AM

@Geostomp: I dunno what channels you're watching but MSNBC doesn't seem to be doing that. They're pretty steadily pointing out many of the flaws of what he's doing.

We should keep in mind that long before Trump there's been the issue of how neutral the news is supposed to be. The prevailing idea seems to be that reporters shouldn't be expressing their own opinion and not have a slant. Having any sort of opinion has helped feed into the "corrupt media" meme aimed at TV networks.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#160855: Dec 7th 2016 at 10:12:52 AM

A fact you won't hear from Trump: automation has caused 85% of manufacturing job losses in the US. Not trade.

But blaming trade for manufacturing job losses is more appealing for leaders pursuing power by fanning white nationalism and nativism.

And for leaders who have little interest in facts or in policy or in actually helping Americans thrive

From prominent Utah Conservative Evan Mcmullin's twitter and it's giving me LIFE.

edited 7th Dec '16 10:13:03 AM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#160856: Dec 7th 2016 at 10:18:49 AM

The chain of tweets in question.

Hearing someone from the Republican party say this is really throwing me off.

I'm glad to see someone there still has a spine.

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#160857: Dec 7th 2016 at 10:21:22 AM

Evan Mcmullin was the third party independent guy from Utah...don't know about him. By basically running independent, he's really put himself out of the Trump Administration's spoils system so he has nothing to lose.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#160858: Dec 7th 2016 at 10:28:22 AM

I'm not sure stopping automation is a good idea though. You CAN produce more product that is more consistent with guidelines with automated manufacturing.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#160859: Dec 7th 2016 at 10:29:30 AM

Unless you try to do something as asinine as banning technology it's practically impossible to stop automation.

New Survey coming this weekend!
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#160860: Dec 7th 2016 at 10:31:57 AM

And I really don't think anyone anywhere is actually suggesting we ban automation. For all its faults, automation is usually safer, more efficient, and helps better working conditions. And I don't think there's many Luddites in either major party.

The best plan is this: Start actively training people for jobs other than what they've gotten used to. The world has changed, and we're still struggling to keep up with how the jobs have changed because of that.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#160861: Dec 7th 2016 at 10:59:28 AM

First thing we've got to do is to end the bullshit nostalgia concerning the 1950's.

Disgusted, but not surprised
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#160862: Dec 7th 2016 at 11:04:31 AM

The 50s DID have some good things. It was the birth of independent cinema, rock and roll, EC Comics, and it was the time of some amazing Hollywood films like Vertigo, and The Searchers. I mean 50s Hollywood was more critical about its society and mores than today's Hollywood is. And the Civil Rights Movement began here.

The idea of the conservative 50s, that world of suburban bliss free of "those people" and the last time white supremacy and patriarchy was the unquestioned hegemony however is true...and if they want to be nostalgic for that then that's wrong, and the way to do it is remind them the reality of what was happening.

Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#160863: Dec 7th 2016 at 11:14:52 AM

Yes. We've spoken about this before.

Mythological notions regarding race and class during the 1950's are similar to mythological notions regarding gender and class during the late 19th century. Many of our current gender norms are the result of reformatory measures carried out during the Victorian period, which in turn was a heavily romanticized and bastardized re-imagining of the European Middle Ages.

edited 7th Dec '16 11:15:23 AM by Aprilla

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#160864: Dec 7th 2016 at 11:18:22 AM

And during the 50's 2/3rds of the world was bombed to shit while the US wasn't.

Unless the world goes through another world war and leaves the US unscathed again the conditions to bring back the manufacturing boom the US experienced during the post war period aren't going to happen.

The problem with the people suffering the nostalgia from the 50's and 60's and how the US was the world's main manufacturing power was that the world changed while they didn't.

Inter arma enim silent leges
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#160865: Dec 7th 2016 at 11:25:37 AM

Donald Trump Picks Scott Pruitt, Ally of Fossil Fuel Industry, to Lead E.P.A.

President-elect Donald J. Trump has selected Scott Pruitt, the Oklahoma attorney general and a close ally of the fossil fuel industry, to run the Environmental Protection Agency, a transition official said, signaling Mr. Trump’s determination to dismantle President Obama’s efforts to counter climate change.

Mr. Pruitt, a Republican, has been a key architect of the legal battle against Mr. Obama’s climate change policies, actions that fit with the president-elect’s comments during the campaign. Mr. Trump has criticized the established science of human-caused global warming as a hoax, vowed to “cancel” the Paris accord committing nearly every nation to taking action to fight climate change, and attacked Mr. Obama’s signature global warming policy, the Clean Power Plan, as a “war on coal

This is fine.

screams internally

New Survey coming this weekend!
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#160866: Dec 7th 2016 at 11:31:30 AM

Welp, so much for Mr. Gore's private audience with the Donald and Princess Ivanka swaying Daddy with appeals to conscience.

I wish he went with Myron Ebell, that guy was clearly incompetent...this guy has the same beliefs but looks competent.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#160867: Dec 7th 2016 at 11:32:35 AM

[up] Eh, like anyone in this thread really expected Trump to change his mind.

The only way he'll ever take action against climate change is if rising sea levels get bad enough to threaten the Mar-a-lago. Or if green energy somehow becomes more profitable than fossil fuel.

edited 7th Dec '16 11:37:02 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#160868: Dec 7th 2016 at 12:00:20 PM

I dunno what jobs there are to train people for. Manufacturing has been taken by robots, and now services are being taken by AI.

I'm no luddite, but neither do I assume technology for its own sake is exactly good for humanity when humanity is still expected to pay for what it consumes. Maybe if more things became free, I'd not worry, but we do not yet live in a post-scarcity world.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#160869: Dec 7th 2016 at 12:00:26 PM

Green energy is inching its way to that point, actually. Lots of investment, both private and public, is going into things like wind and solar energy. Obviously it won't become super cheap within Trump's presidency, bit it is getting there.

[up]Eh, unless actual AI sees a lot of improvement very quickly there's a lot of service jobs that I expect to remain steady. The bad part about that is much of the service industry is prevented from unionizing and pays minimum wage. But given that people like hospitality, I think the service industry will continue to be staffed by people.

edited 7th Dec '16 12:02:17 PM by AceofSpades

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#160870: Dec 7th 2016 at 12:11:25 PM

Maybe they can commercialize something out of that supposed "Southern hospitality".

edited 7th Dec '16 12:12:26 PM by AlleyOop

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#160871: Dec 7th 2016 at 12:12:27 PM

I think it's been mentioned before that people have been talking about retraining efforts in coal country for decades and nothing has come of it. What jobs, exactly, are we going to re-train people for? Anything involving a college degree or more is too costly for the tax payer and anything less people won't go for. If you spent a decade making 60k in a mine and I come around and tell you you can make 25 in a call center you ain't going for it. Not to mention there are no employers in coal country as the population density isn't large enough to justify movement towards the area.

And it's only going to get worse. Automated vehicles are coming and that is one of the biggest employers right now. Who needs a trucker to work 16 hours a day when a bot can go 23 and get in less accidents?

Quite frankly, outside of a UGI or similar scheme, I don't see the new millennium working out. We need a newer deal.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#160872: Dec 7th 2016 at 12:27:21 PM

And the problem with UBI...are there enough taxes and capital to go around for it even be viable, especially when robots take the place of a lot of workers?

New Survey coming this weekend!
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#160873: Dec 7th 2016 at 12:31:19 PM

[up][up]One suggestion has been retraining them to do things like install solar panels and such, not retraining them for literally an entirely different career like a call center. There have been some small time efforts to that particular cause, but nothing en mass, I think.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#160874: Dec 7th 2016 at 12:57:04 PM

Yeah this at the very least needs to be the last straw for people that keep calling to give Trump a chance. He's a Captain Planet villain.

Geostomp In the name of the POWER, I will punish you! from Arkansas, USA Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
In the name of the POWER, I will punish you!
#160875: Dec 7th 2016 at 1:02:37 PM

[up] "But if you just give him a chance like we didn't, he'll certainly do great for us (angry white conservatives)." That "give him a chance" bullshit deserves to be tossed out when the bastard is doing what he's always don't his entire miserable life: lie to rubes, crash the ship he's running, profit off all the misery, then blame someone else while he runs off.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" Futurama, Godfellas

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