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pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#160801: Dec 6th 2016 at 6:30:52 PM

[up]Remove a few more letters here and there, and you wind up with Spit-bile. Which is probably more appropriate.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#160802: Dec 6th 2016 at 6:36:46 PM

Going into the next four years, it's probably a good idea to approach everything Trump's administration does that seems tolerable or even good at first glance with a lot of skepticism. You won't have to chip very hard at the gilding to reveal the cheap plaster beneath it. Just keep in mind one thing: Trump only cares about Trump.

edited 6th Dec '16 6:38:29 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#160803: Dec 6th 2016 at 6:40:53 PM

It is also a mistake to think that Trump cares about money in and of itself. If he did, he'd have made better business decisions. No, he cares about himself as a brand above all else, even at the expense of his notional bottom line. It's pure ego with him, all the time. If there is anything to remember about him that can fundamentally explain his actions, it's this.

Trump has the interesting property of believing everything that comes out of his own mouth implicitly. He lives in a post-fact paradigm. He cares nothing for evidence or empiricism. He will blatantly deny saying things that he is on public record for saying, and mean it. You cannot engage him in a factual discussion.

edited 6th Dec '16 6:42:50 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#160804: Dec 6th 2016 at 6:50:29 PM

[up] It's been brought up before by people who actually know a thing or two about investing that Trump would be a much wealthier man today if he did nothing.

Any deal that Trump makes in the future as POTUS is going to be:

a) a poorly disguised scheme to enrich the Trump family

b) something that gives Trump an excuse to preen before the cameras even though it actually has awful downsides (which the MSM won't cover since they're too lazy to do any real follow-up)

c) something that Trump might actually think is good for the country (and gives him a chance to boast), except he is too ignorant and/or stupid to realize it's not.

d) all of the above

edited 6th Dec '16 6:57:00 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#160805: Dec 6th 2016 at 6:53:37 PM

I actually think this is the start of the dystopia sci-fi people have long foreseen. Corporations taking over the government. By that I mean actually taking over, not influencing behind-the-scenes, not bribing and so on, but straight up cutting out the middle-man and the behind-the-scenes curtains.

That is really what this election was about...corporations decided to take out the government, the only entity that could stop them from screwing over employees and consumers, and they did it to halt the spread of a consensus to halt income inequality. They are going to take over the government, privatize existing institutions, loot people in a massive scale and defang and discredit governments and political process for good. From here onwards, corporate entities will be like neo-feudal domains and people will either be serfs and/or court jesters, and all our professions/discourse/laws will be censored because IP laws will be strengthened, and speaking against brand or calling attention to its crimes will be a new form of lese-majeste (and it already is that to some extent).

That kind of stuff was happening in third world nations and in places like Singapore but now it's coming here.

This isn't the end of globalization or the end of neoliberalism or the revolt of the white working class. This is actually globalization at a higher level. Because Trump is an internationalist, as evidenced by the Trump tower deals in Mumbai and Indonesia. He is right now asserting control or the appearance of it on other companies to get himself a new class of serfs.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#160806: Dec 6th 2016 at 7:14:07 PM

[up] The so-called "anti-establishment" helped make the establishment more powerful than ever.

That said, even some of them are wary since they know Trump's an idiot whose only strength is conning people and that he isn't up to the task of making sure the global economy doesn't collapse.

edited 6th Dec '16 7:17:03 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#160807: Dec 6th 2016 at 7:21:48 PM

[up][up] I dunno, that sounds awfully pessimistic and paranoid. Trump, for all his faults, would never allow Companies to do anything like take over the USA. If that happened, then his brand would be damaged, and as we all know, he only cares about his Image.

Yes, we'll see Companies increase their power and influence, and income inequality get worse, but they won't outright take over the USA, especially not under Donald John Trump, who with one tweet, can send their stocks down the tubes.

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#160808: Dec 6th 2016 at 7:25:44 PM

You have tropes like Rule-Abiding Rebel, The Man Is Sticking It to the Man and Staged Populist Uprising for a certain reason.

The Tea Party was an astro-turfed Koch-financed protest movement that was a revanchist white backlash against Obama becoming President. Bannon supported the Tea Party so it's an old concept he's familiar with.

But you look at Trump's millionaire cabinet, all of them profiteers and looters (to borrow a favorite word form Paul Ryan's favorite writer), then the conclusion is inescapable. These guys are crooks of the first order.

I dunno, that sounds awfully pessimistic and paranoid. Trump, for all his faults, would never allow Companies to do anything like take over the USA.

The Carrier deal more or less gave a royal road to US companies to do that.

If that happened, then his brand would be damaged, and as we all know, he only cares about his Image.

As long as stuff affects ordinary people worse than himself and his image and his brand, he wouldn't care.

Yes, we'll see Companies increase their power and influence, and income inequality get worse, but they won't outright take over the USA, especially not under Donald John Trump, who with one tweet, can send their stocks down the tubes.

That kind of thing is not a display of any power at all. You are mistaking reality. By doing the things Trump does, he's telling corporations that government insititutions, offices and laws don't matter...only he matters, and to get ahead you need to deal with him personally. He will cut you a sweet deal and leave you alone.

Remember there will be huge tax cuts next year...and Trump's infrastructure scheme will more or less sell and divest public money to private corporations and not solve anything. His global conflict of schemes will lead to a mammoth slush fund cabal that will make the panama papers look like a piggy bank

edited 6th Dec '16 7:30:59 PM by JulianLapostat

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#160809: Dec 6th 2016 at 7:54:02 PM

In other words, Trump's America is shaping up to be a kleptocracy. Welcome to Cyberpunk, ladies and gentlemen.

edited 6th Dec '16 7:59:34 PM by CaptainCapsase

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#160810: Dec 6th 2016 at 8:01:11 PM

[up]Honestly, the more days that go by, the more a succession (or alternatively a willing annexation by Canada,) doesn't look so bad...

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#160811: Dec 6th 2016 at 8:13:17 PM

[up][up] Next thing you know, everything's going to be tinted yellow.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Shippudentimes Since: Dec, 2012
#160812: Dec 6th 2016 at 8:14:44 PM

I made this in response to Donald Trump's claims of election rigging.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#160813: Dec 6th 2016 at 9:15:11 PM

Speaking of secession from the corrupt neo-monarchy:

The party’s position is this: The United Nations Charter lists political self-determination as a human right, something no government can deny. The U.S. Constitution says treaties are the supreme law of the land. The U.S. government signed the U.N. Charter; therefore movements for political self-determination are explicitly legalized.

The California National Party is dedicated to liberating California from a union that is no longer reflective of our values, and from two political parties that either treat us with scorn and ridicule, or use us as a cash cow to finance elections. Our contribution to the military is more than Russia’s entire military budget, more than any other state, yet our voice goes unheard when it comes to how that military is deployed.

This is how the California National Party plans to secede.

The CNP if you will.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#160814: Dec 6th 2016 at 9:27:10 PM

From here onwards, corporate entities will be like neo-feudal domains and people will either be serfs and/or court jesters, and all our professions/discourse/laws will be censored because IP laws will be strengthened, and speaking against brand or calling attention to its crimes will be a new form of lese-majeste (and it already is that to some extent).

My father owns a small corporation and my uncle has a start up company. Does this mean I'm part of the minor neo-aristocracy?

edited 6th Dec '16 9:27:22 PM by MadSkillz

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#160815: Dec 6th 2016 at 9:51:14 PM

Self determination doesn't confer the right to secede from a nation because you're displeased over once election. If it did that, then nations as we understand them currently would essentially be useless.

And god, why do people keep bringing up secession in this thread? It's obnoxious and we know it's not going to actually happen.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#160816: Dec 6th 2016 at 9:54:05 PM

[up]x4 Holy shit, I remember that guy.

Oh God! Natural light!
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#160817: Dec 6th 2016 at 10:02:32 PM

[up][up]What about willing annexation? Because I don't know about you, but Canada's looking like a sweet long-term second home if you ask me...

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#160818: Dec 6th 2016 at 10:21:22 PM

[up] That requires you to secede first. If we're going to talk crazy, unrealistic scenarios, Canada joining the US would be more constructive, because the 35 million additional people would tip the balance decisively away from the current GOP.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#160819: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:04:32 PM

And god, why do people keep bringing up secession in this thread? It's obnoxious and we know it's not going to actually happen.

Because the movement is starting to pick up a little steam and it's in the news for California. And we're not hear to talk about what you don't find obnoxious. It's a thread about US Politics. This is part of that.

edited 6th Dec '16 11:08:19 PM by MadSkillz

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#160820: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:14:07 PM

Asides from the stench of a Russian influence operation?

On the other hand, the American electorate did prove that it was not smart enough to see one of those either, so why bother stopping until we hit the fucking Moho?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#160821: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:17:22 PM

If people were serious about a secession, they ought to wait until after Trump's administration actually puts oppressive laws into effect, destabilizes international relations, and brings forth economic downturn. Then they could tell other people "See, this is why we want to leave!"

Heck, at that point, other states might want in on the movement.

With all that said, I still don't see secession happening.

edited 6th Dec '16 11:19:14 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#160822: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:19:44 PM

@Cap, doing the math, I don't think that Canada (assuming that Canada had a few less Electoral votes than California as a hypothetical 51st state, or more realistically as a combined half a dozen new states) could have swayed this last election from Trump if we had a vote. He won too many swing states.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#160823: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:30:07 PM

Trump skips attacks on media to focus on the military in his second post-election speech

President-elect Donald Trump did something unusual Tuesday night at the second rally of his “Thank You Tour” in Fayetteville, N.C. — he stopped the crowd from booing the press. The moment made a stark contrast from his regular rants against the media, when he often encouraged audiences to join in. A high-level source on Trump’s transition team told Yahoo News that the shift in tone of the speech reflected the president-elect’s desire to focus on the military and veterans.

“The script to what we’re doing is not yet written. Remember, this has been a great, great movement, the likes of which they’ve never seen before,” Trump said, pointing to the reporters who were covering the rally.

Taking what by now has become a familiar cue, the crowd interrupted him to rain boos down on the press pen.

“No, no, no,” Trump said putting a stop to the jeers. “I’ll tell you — and they’re saying it — they’ve never seen anything like this before. It’s one of the great political phenomena of all time, and we’re going to show them. We’re going to do a great job.”

Trump predicted his administration would make the country “safe” and “prosperous.”

“It’s going to be something special. Hopefully, they’re going to write the truth,” Trump said of the media. He added, “We do not know what the page tomorrow will read. But for the first time in a long time, what we do know is that the pages will be authored by each and every one in this room and in our country.”

Attacks on the media were a staple of his rallies throughout the presidential campaign. The first rally of his post-election “Thank You Tour” on Dec. 1 also featured eight minutes of Trump railing against the press. A high-level source on Trump’s transition team attributed the change in tone to Trump’s desire that his comments on the military and veterans not be “uninterrupted” by other concerns.

“Focus was on military and vets. A singular and solid message that should be and was delivered uninterrupted by other issues,” the source said in a text message.

Earlier in the speech, Trump noted that Wednesday will be the 75th anniversary of Pearl Harbor. He vowed to “defeat” the threats that currently face the country, which he described as the “forces of terrorism.” Trump also pointed out that Fayetteville is near the U.S. Army base of Fort Bragg, and praised “the military families of North Carolina. He vowed that his administration would be focused on “taking care of our veterans” and the “rebuilding of our military.”

That new initiative, Trump explained, would be in the service of seeking “peace through strength” rather than the nation’s current posture, which he criticized as a “destructive cycle of intervention and chaos” abroad.

“We want to be the smart people. We don’t want to be what we’ve been over the last long period of time. We build up our military not as an act of aggression, but as an act of prevention. We pursue and build up arms not in order to seek conflict, but in order to avoid conflict,” Trump said.

Trump also formally introduced his choice for secretary of defense, retired Marine Gen. James Mattis, at the event. He called Mattis “an extraordinary leader for our times” and the general made some brief remarks.

Along with curtailing his criticism of the media, Trump also only briefly diverged into discussing his performance in the election.

“We don’t talk about numbers,” Trump said at one point. “We bring people together. But, boy, were those numbers good.”

Overall, the speech, which clocked in at just over 30 minutes, was about 20 minutes shorter than the one he delivered at his first post-election rally. Trump, who has been criticized for waging a divisive campaign, concluded on an inclusive note.

“We will heal our divisions and unify our country. When Americans are unified there is nothing we cannot do. Nothing. No task is too great, no dream too large, no goal beyond our reach,” Trump said. “My message tonight is for all Americans from all parties, all beliefs, all walks of life. It’s a message for everybody, no matter your age, your income, your background.”

As he often does, Trump finished with his campaign slogan.

“We’re going to make America like it says on all of those caps — those millions and millions of caps that have been sold all over this country and all of those signs — we are going to make America great again, greater than ever before,” he said.

... Who is this guy, and what did he do with Trump?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#160824: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:32:08 PM

As always, Trump killed Trump Five Minutes Ago, and is saying what he thinks will get him more eyes.

It's been fun.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#160825: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:33:28 PM

[up][up]He talked to a different advisor.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot

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