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Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#16026: Apr 4th 2012 at 12:56:34 PM

Meanwhile, moderates are pointing out that bears do not shit in winter. tongue

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#16027: Apr 4th 2012 at 1:54:45 PM

However, how ethical would you say Obama's calling out is?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#16028: Apr 4th 2012 at 2:05:02 PM

It's problematic. It enables a line of attack on him claiming that he doesn't recognize the Constitutional authority of SCOTUS. It provides fuel for the "Obama = Big Government Takeover" rhetoric. It makes him look weak if SCOTUS overturns the law anyway.

edited 4th Apr '12 2:06:17 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#16029: Apr 4th 2012 at 2:09:56 PM

Obama attacked the Paul Ryan budget, among other things, and I think it's pretty ethical considering the budget cuts social services in the name of balancing the budget while cutting taxes to a massive degree for the rich, so much so that it undoes all the savings from the cuts. That budget is dishonest and benefits only a very small amount of the population.

I don't know about his calling out the Supreme court, but I'm with anybody who sees their shenanigans as bullshit. Monday they ruled that you can be strip-searched when brought into jail for any offense, no matter how minor, as the case was of a man who was strip searched twice, and was arrested for failing to pay a fine (which he actually did pay).

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#16030: Apr 4th 2012 at 2:11:06 PM

Well, if we're talking about Obama calling out the Ryan budget, of course he's justified in doing that. I wish the Constitution allowed us to administer some kind of rationality test as a condition for eligibility to elected office.

edited 4th Apr '12 2:12:17 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#16031: Apr 4th 2012 at 2:26:18 PM

According to Fox News Radio (kill me; my libertarian dad plays it sometimes), the last president that confronted the Supreme Court like Obama did was Franklin Roosevelt, and according to them, it affected the following election.

But I'm not sure how true that is. I might have to get the transcript, if they publish it.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#16033: Apr 4th 2012 at 2:44:26 PM

Nixon was cool.

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#16034: Apr 4th 2012 at 2:48:19 PM

Aside from the whole corruption thingy (aka ignoring the most significant part of his presidency...), yeah, he's not the worst president of the 20th century.

Skatepunk Since: Feb, 2011
#16035: Apr 4th 2012 at 3:15:30 PM

I still think the worst in history was Buchanan. He did nothing to cool down the tension of the North and South, leaving Lincoln with a Civil War.

As for calling out the court, I don't know what to think. The Roberts court made some controversial decisions, but they also made some good ones (like Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association). However, I feel this "calling out" will hurt him if the court rules it unconstitutional. The right move isn't necessarily the wise move.

edited 4th Apr '12 3:24:37 PM by Skatepunk

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#16038: Apr 4th 2012 at 3:22:41 PM

I doubt it'll have a significant impact, but I'm glad it's gone through.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#16039: Apr 4th 2012 at 3:38:02 PM

I still think the worst in history was Buchanan.

Adams was worse.

So, any decent third parties this time around? The Republicans seem determined to shoot themselves in the nuts, and there's no way in hell I'm voting Obama after he's done nothing but sell us out on pretty much every level of intrusive security theater.

Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#16040: Apr 4th 2012 at 3:39:41 PM

Well, standard third choices seem to be Libertarian and Green. Since you sound like you're leaning to the latter anyway... OTOH, is this still Nader's ego project?

/E: Looking on Wiki, already not anymore since 2000. Hrm, oops.

edited 4th Apr '12 3:40:36 PM by Octo

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#16041: Apr 4th 2012 at 5:20:05 PM

The STOCK act signing, like the enacting of the "no you can't dump mercury into our water supplies" regulation, is one of those regulations so blatantly necessary and simple that you have to wonder why anyone would ever oppose them. And then you realize Obama has to get elected despite all his glaring flaws because we can rely on him to at least sign stuff like that.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#16042: Apr 4th 2012 at 5:43:38 PM

Nixon was cool.

His cheeks must be glistening with tears in heaven. The kids think he's cool!

I'm a skeptical squirrel
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#16043: Apr 4th 2012 at 5:59:22 PM

You could have the perfect president if by mixing Nixon's foreign policy skills and Johnson's domestic initiatives. Just cut out the former's paranoia and the latter's megalomania and you're good.tongue

But yeah, Obama is taking a huge risk by calling out the courts; if even part of the law gets struck down than there is no way he can avoid looking like an idiot.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#16044: Apr 4th 2012 at 6:21:28 PM

Yeah, I agree that it was a bad move to criticism them the way he did.

If he was going to criticize them, he should do so by explaining that the Supreme court has become politicized and that the conservative justices are supporting a conservative agenda, rather than actually interpreting the constitution.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#16045: Apr 4th 2012 at 8:13:57 PM

Since when was Johnson considered megalomaniacal? o_0 This is the first time I've ever heard him referred to him as that.

As for Obama's criticism of the Supreme Court; I'm not quite sure what to think of that myself. *shrug* But the fact of the matter is if they rule against it, a great many people are screwed and they will have earned themselves the contempt of literally thousands of people. I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't change it so that we vote on who gets to serve on the Supreme Court as well, but I'm not sure how well that would work in the long run.

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#16046: Apr 4th 2012 at 8:19:11 PM

There's a real populism issue there, to be honest.

How the hell are we supposed to pick who we vote for as Supreme Court justice?

Be honest, all we'd be doing is picking people whose interpretations corresponded with our personal biases.

That said, the current situation is terrible too. It's incredibly obvious that the Supreme Court votes down partisan lines.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#16047: Apr 4th 2012 at 8:22:02 PM

That's more of an issue with the overall political atmosphere than with how judges are selected, though. (He says, as though making a shift in the tone of the entirety of American politics would be comparatively easy to do....)

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#16048: Apr 4th 2012 at 9:54:25 PM

Since when was Johnson considered megalomaniacal?

Are.

You.

Kidding???

The one good thing about his disgraceful career was when he said "we shall overcome". Even Nixon had more wins, and most of those were either forced upon him (EPA) or hypocritical (China).

edited 4th Apr '12 9:55:33 PM by johnnyfog

I'm a skeptical squirrel
Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#16049: Apr 4th 2012 at 10:11:18 PM

Johnson was megalomanic as hell, and largely responsible for the escalation of the US involvement in Vietnam. OTOH, he cleverly exploited Kennedy's martyr status and pushed through a Civil Rights Act far more extensive than what Kennedy had planned, and his vision of the "Great Society" was a positive one. If it wasn't for Vietnam, I'd consider him the best US President of the 20th century.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#16050: Apr 4th 2012 at 10:30:51 PM

From my understanding (and my basic college American history class), Johnson thought Vietnam was inevitable and knew once it broke out he would lose public opinion; so, he got as much as he could done before Vietnam went down.

On-topic, Representative Tim Johnson (R-IL) will not seek reelection.

EDIT: Gingrich says he's gonna be in it until Romney manages to reach 1,144 delegates.

edited 4th Apr '12 11:27:27 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."

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