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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#159976: Dec 2nd 2016 at 5:09:38 AM

[up] Okay, that seems undemocratic as fuck.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#159977: Dec 2nd 2016 at 5:15:10 AM

That proposed Texas law is going to run afoul of the courts. At least for now.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#159978: Dec 2nd 2016 at 5:16:45 AM

[up] I hope that law gets aborted in the courts. And I hope the assholes who proposed it have to hold an expensive funeral for a hard-copy of it.

Disgusted, but not surprised
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#159979: Dec 2nd 2016 at 6:27:32 AM

Am I the only one who has this strong feeling of dread? (The answer: Probably not, but for the sake of argument...) Part of me is feeling like nothing I do or say really matters because, comes late January, Trump gets inaugurated and the world practically comes to an end, or at least that's what my gut keeps telling me. I keep trying to tell myself, 'Things aren't as bad as they seem, it'll all work out in the end', but when I see another deplorable or inept get appointed to another official office, or when I see Trump once again show that he has no respect for our democracy, then it becomes a lot harder to keep up that line of thought.

And then the really paranoid and downright irrational side of me thinks he might press the big red button on his first day of office because, hey, what better way to show he's got what it takes to be President then blowing up all of our enemies in one stroke? I know that's never going to happen and that there are a number of factors preventing Trump from doing anything short of pressing his face against the casing, but even when the risk factor is just 1%, that 1% becomes damning in the face of what that 1% coming to pass would mean.

The point is, I'm doing my best to keep calm and carry on, but with the shitshow showing no signs of getting less shitty, I have to ask: What's the point? (And this is coming from a straight white man; I can only imagine what anyone who's not a straight white man must be going through. Which makes my concerns looks trivial in hindsight, but still.)

edited 2nd Dec '16 6:28:07 AM by kkhohoho

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#159980: Dec 2nd 2016 at 6:28:48 AM

[up] If nothing else, we'll always be able to laugh and gloat at the Trump supporters. evil grin

I for one may not be white, but I am straight, male, in the upper class tax bracket, and (this is important) I live in California. That will help take the edge off — especially since we legalized weed. grin At least until President Trump (ugh) decides to override states' rights. Since states' rights are apparently only a thing when it involves keeping minorities down.

edited 2nd Dec '16 6:32:53 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#159981: Dec 2nd 2016 at 6:44:04 AM

[up][up] He wouldn't be allowed to actually do that. There's limits even to what an autocratic leader can tell their subordinates to do and have their orders respected, and pressing the button for no reason goes beyond even that.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#159982: Dec 2nd 2016 at 6:58:43 AM

[up]I know, I know. It's just, well, it's TRUMP. The man seems to be able to defy the previously established rules of reality and get with anything he wants to. If he wants to blow up the world, then whatever the new established rules just happen to be, they may just allow him to do that.

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#159983: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:02:07 AM

With the senate recently voting to extend sanctions against Iran, I wonder if they'll wait for Trump to muck it up or if they'll be the one to go gung-ho and withdraw from the treaty first? Their politicians are making a bunch of noise already over the sanctions showing the treaty isn't worth it, and with Trump at the helm I'd imagine they're feeling a bit less secure than they were before.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:02:14 AM by carbon-mantis

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#159984: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:04:42 AM

Trump may be stupid but he isn't actively self-destructive. There's no threat of nuclear war or even, i'd argue, of major war unless someone else really provokes us.

Edit: thing with the Iran deal is that they hold all the cards now. The major thing about the easing of sanctions was the repatriation of money locked up in foreign accounts for decades in some cases. Basically they got their money and now they're holding up their end of the bargain. We end the deal now, they got paid *and* they get to start nuclear research again. That's called a lose-lose.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:06:20 AM by Ogodei

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#159985: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:07:05 AM

[up]But it's a good excuse to start invading...

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#159986: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:11:15 AM

I'm anticipating that Trump will think he's on a reality show like The Apprentice. The moment somebody in the government doesn't comply with his outrageous demands, it'll go something like this:

"You're fired!"

"You can't fire me, I was elected."

"I'm the President! I can do anything I want!"

"The Presidency doesn't have that kind of authority."

"You're wrong!"

It's like arguing with a two-year-old; Trump is just a seething mass of emotions and opinions, he doesn't understand rules and laws and facts.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#159987: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:13:32 AM

[up][up]

That ties into the other problem with thinking of Trump as a potential warmonger. It's pretty clear that he barely wants to do the work of being President. War is hell on soldiers but a different kind of hell on the civilian upper command, especially in this day and age of instant communication and feedback from the front. An invasion would be work, Trump wouldn't want to do that.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#159988: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:14:13 AM

[up][up] Trump isn't that stupid. Unfortunately. He's vindictive and impulsive, but he's also a master at social engineering, and while he'll make (and has already made) plenty of enemies, it's going to be difficult for them to organize effectively unless he makes a mistake, or someone devises a counter to his gaslighting strategy.

[up] Trump is also shameless enough to delegate work even when his duty as President (or as a CEO for that matter) demands he oversee something personally. If the going gets tough, he'll make Pence go do it for him.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:15:24 AM by CaptainCapsase

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#159989: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:19:18 AM

That might pass muster for boring policy crap, but war is different. He'll end up looking like the damn Romanovs if he's off cavorting on the golf course while other people send our young men and women out to die.

It's just not a good look, however you slice it, and so an option that he's unlikely to pursue.

Remember: the Trumpkins aren't very jingoistic at the end of the day. They're xenophobic and patriotic, but there's a difference. They are fundamentally disinterested in the problems of other countries except how they might influence us, hence Trump's rhetoric about "well, why can't Saudi Arabia and South Korea just get their own nukes?" They would rather see America's relative standing degraded by adding more countries to the nuclear club than see America get involved in other people's problems.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#159990: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:20:56 AM

[up] It's very easy to turn such sentiments into outright hostility. I can only hope Trump's base is jaded enough about foreign intervention to resist such ploys, but I wouldn't bet on it.

It also might be difficult for the public to tell whether Trump is shirking his duties or not; he's not the first president to try and bypass the press, but it's looking more and more like he'll be the first to be successful at it to the degree that he has, courtesy of his mastery of social media.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:23:31 AM by CaptainCapsase

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#159991: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:37:55 AM

Trump as he stands right now is probably invincible, politically. The only way he's really going down is through self-destruction.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#159992: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:38:43 AM

[up]Let's just hope he doesn't take the country with him.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#159993: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:40:23 AM

[up][up] Which is more or less what happened with his numerous business failures; it wasn't so much him being ignorant of the business world or even necessarily incompetent as much as it was his hubris and impulsiveness leading him to do something incredibly stupid out of desire to get even with somebody or because someone said it couldn't be done.

So there's hope, at least that he'll piss off the wrong people and be impeached as a result.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:41:06 AM by CaptainCapsase

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#159994: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:48:40 AM

As to Trump ending the world:

There's no money in it.

Keep that in mind. As much as Trump is driven by pride, he's also blatantly running this presidency as a relative get-rich-quick scheme and worst comes to worse, he takes the money in run. There's no profit in a nuclear winter.

Though of note, while Trump's a master of social engineering, as far as people working with him: His turnover rate is ridiculously high. Apparently because he spends most of his time screaming at people until they mentally and emotionally break down and just flat out leave to get away from him. So that's probably something we'll be seeing a lot of.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#159995: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:49:15 AM

[up][up][up]At this point, I'm ambivalent about worrying about "the country." America as a society needs a damn good lashing, as all sclerotic, small-minded, unimaginative, and anti-intellectual society inevitable must have.

It's most important, however, that Democrats stop thinking of themselves as a minority party and more as an opposition party — total non-compliance, and devise an alternative for every single policy the GOP politburo enacts. None of them will become a reality, but the people need to know, in concrete terms, that we're different. Which means that the Democrats need to avoid sullying their reputations by associating with Trump.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:49:40 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#159996: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:53:12 AM

The party also needs to get better at narrative crafting. Policy's good, but the party needs to 'git gud' at making it simple, easy and digestible. Keep It Simple Stupid. And a lot of it for the last couple of years hasn't been that simple.

Except you know. From the Two Populist Elder Horrors of this Thread whose names drive members here to madness.

(Or Harry Reid turning the Kochs from invisible to Public Enemy Number 1)

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:53:36 AM by PotatoesRock

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#159997: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:53:29 AM

[up][up] That sounds a lot like accelerationism to me. Especially considering how much damage America could do the world if it goes down flailing at anything within reach, we must do everything in our power to avoid such a scenario.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:53:34 AM by CaptainCapsase

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#159998: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:54:44 AM

Accelerationism is collaboration, not obstruction. The latter is called "obstructionism".

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#159999: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:57:34 AM

[up] Obstructionism has similar motivations and similar problems though; in either case, you're deliberately sabotaging the country for the sake of political gain.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:59:04 AM by CaptainCapsase

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#160000: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:58:37 AM

Not quite. Collaborating with someone means helping them achieve their objectives, which they are thus more likely to achieve. Obstructing means the opposite.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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