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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#155326: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:48:19 AM

Didn't know who he is, googled and this headline was the first result:

Kris Kobach, Architect Of Draconian Anti-Immigrant Policies, Joining Trump's Transition Team
I guess the wall is gonna be real...

We didn't do it in 2012 when Obama won either.
Er... Are you sure about that?

edited 15th Nov '16 10:50:41 AM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#155327: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:50:08 AM

Like Puerto Rico, Guam, the US Virgin Islands and American Samoa. They are American citizens, but they have no say or representation. What about them?
They should push for statehood, and gain representation. There's nothing magical about the number 50. Except, of course, that Puerto Rico at least keeps deciding they're fine with remaining a territory.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#155328: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:52:35 AM

They've also said that a lot of said email weren't classified when they were sent, or were classified by mistake. And given that Comey was later really obviously trying to influence the election, his word should be taken with a grain of salt.

Plus saying 'anyone else would be trouble' raises eyebrows considering a) other people did it and aren't in trouble, and b) why shouldn't Hillary be in trouble, then?

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155329: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:52:55 AM

Statehood requires more taxes, a minimum population, and a loooooooot more bureaucracy.

It's not some sort of ideal state of being. There are reasons they haven't done so already.

[up]exactly. Where are the calls to jail Condoleeza Rice?

edited 15th Nov '16 10:53:52 AM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#155330: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:54:34 AM

edited 15th Nov '16 10:58:18 AM by Bat178

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#155332: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:56:06 AM

@ Electoral College:

We directly elect our Head of State. The earlier system was somewhat similar to the EC, in which the parliament elected the President, but after 21 years of autocratic rule, it was decided that it will be down to popular vote (there were many other reasons as well). The Presidential powers were also reduced to nothing but "leading foreign policy". Although that can be used somewhat creatively.

A bicameral system would be interesting though.

edited 15th Nov '16 10:56:45 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#155333: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:56:57 AM

[up][up][up]Can you please not say that?

edited 15th Nov '16 10:57:06 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#155335: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:58:32 AM

Statehood or not, U.S. territories are still subject to the will of the U.S. government, and this election affects them too.

And if the decisions made in Washington affect them, then isn't it fair that they have a say in it?

Oh God! Natural light!
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155336: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:01:31 AM

Give the combined non-state territories a single Electoral vote evil grin

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#155337: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:01:36 AM

Republicans will refuse any attempts at statehood by current non-state entities because they invariably give more votes to Democrats. This is why DC is not a state despite voting for it over and over again.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155338: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:02:30 AM

I... thought they didn't meet the population requirements either...

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#155339: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:03:06 AM

Bense, can I ask you what kind of things you DO think should be left to the states, specifically?
Basically anything that doesn't really involve interstate commerce. That's one area where I feel the Founders made a mistake - in making that clause too broad.

What marriage is, whether abortion should be legal, what drugs should be legal, education, euthanasia, land management (my home state has a lot of federal lands that we have no say in managing), health insurance, the drinking age, the death penalty, most law enforcement, etc. A list of Federal overreach is by necessity a long list.

Basically let the states try different things, and then the ideas that fail will be put aside by those states, and good ideas will be adapted by others. Our current Federal "from the top down, one size fits all" approach doesn't work quite right.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#155340: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:05:34 AM

What marriage is, whether abortion should be legal,

Why exactly do you think states should be able to decide those things in the first place?

Whether a woman lives in Alabama or Ohio, or whether a gay couple lives in New York or Arkansas should have no bearing on whether they can get an abortion or whether they should get married respectively.

As I already told you, some things should not be for states to decide, especially when they involve people's civil rights. I don't know how I can make that any simpler. Your proposal would throw minorities to the wolves, as arguments for states' rights often do, and as states' right themselves often have.

edited 15th Nov '16 11:13:48 AM by Draghinazzo

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155341: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:06:23 AM

It's more of a Top-Down minimum requirements system.

States voted to keep segregation legal for decades, after all.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#155342: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:07:17 AM

[up][up][up]Bull. If the states get to decide who marries you're going to see gay rights suppressed throughout red states. And no it won't result in the states "abandoning those policies when they don't work" because hey, hurting the LGBTQ populace in an end goal in and of itself for some of these people.

edited 15th Nov '16 11:07:30 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#155343: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:07:50 AM

"They should push for statehood, and gain representation. There's nothing magical about the number 50. Except, of course, that Puerto Rico at least keeps deciding they're fine with remaining a territory."

They had a referendum on the issue, but because critics of the ballot alleged that one option, to stay as a US territory but with greater devolution of power, was omitted, the results were invalid, which is difficult to argue against since the ballot could have included a half dozen other proposals, and would have likely required a second vote for a definitive result.

They're definitely making noise about statehood, though.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#155344: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:08:52 AM

They also voted to keep interracial marriage illegal too, which is hugely inefficient as it means many married couples can't move for a new job or family if it means causing their marriage to be annulled based on their location. It's YUUUGELY inefficient to not have a consistent nationwide standard for this.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155345: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:09:05 AM

Particularly civil rights that were defined in the Constitution of the UNITED STATES.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#155346: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:09:37 AM

[up]x7

Except they don't get "put aside" by those states. Things like slavery and Jim Crow had to be outlawed by the Federal government by force. The south went to Civil War in order to keep their "right" to own slaves, and had no intention on giving them up.

The idea that we should let massive amounts of our population suffer until bigots grow a conscience is a horrific one.

edited 15th Nov '16 11:13:50 AM by SilentColossus

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#155347: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:16:36 AM

Seriously Bense, are you saying that Jim Crow should have been left up to the states. Because if it had it'd still be on the books in much the country.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#155348: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:16:37 AM

Our current Federal "from the top down, one size fits all" approach doesn't work quite right.

Works pretty okay if you're a black person wanting to vote or a gay person wanting to be allowed to have sex (homosexuality is still illegal in several states).

I get that you want to see states as near independent entities but you do understand that several US states would rapidly approach Saudi Arabia and Apartied South Africa level of tyranny and oppression, right? Because if you gave states all the rights you wanted to you'd have never seen an end to slavery or Jim Crow.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#155349: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:19:49 AM

We have made a cultural decision (or thought we did) that civil rights, gender rights, sexual rights, religious freedom — basic human equality — transcends the power of individual states and is a national or even global matter. The Constitution is pretty explicit in this regard.

edited 15th Nov '16 11:20:40 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Gault Laugh and grow dank! from beyond the kingdom Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: P.S. I love you
Laugh and grow dank!
#155350: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:25:31 AM

It was never and never will be the case, even in a country with a perfect democracy, that the basic rights of sub-sections of the population are subject to a popular vote.

Just to make this perfectly clear: if I was president, and 99% of the American population were of the genuine opinion that, for instance, gay people shouldn't be able to marry, and they all voted to that effect, and the decision reached my desk with such an overwhelming popular majority, I would hesitate precisely zero seconds to veto it.

And this goes beyond the personal. This applies to every president, regardless of what their private opinions might be, religious or otherwise. This is a fundamental civic truth. By the very nature of government, it is a leader's duty to stand for the interests of all of the nation's citizens. You don't get to arbitrarily carve out some type of person and single them out for the stripping of their rights. That is simply not your place. If God came down from Heaven and proclaimed it his divine word that gays should not be allowed to marry, well then tough shit, 'cause it's simply not his place either.

[up] Disagree. This is not a matter of culture. It's far more fundamental than that, or at least it should be.

edited 15th Nov '16 11:26:23 AM by Gault

yey

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