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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#155101: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:27:51 PM

On how to stop Bannon's appointment

Basically:

  • Call your Representatives and Senators and make it clear you do not want him.
  • Call major religious organizations, make it clear you do not want him
  • Call the Chamber of Commerce, make it clear you do not want him
  • Call out the Media for not calling him a white supremacist
  • Contact anyone else of high profile or influence.

The strongest weapon right now is Self Interest. To paraphrase the Batman "Politicans are a superstitious and cowardly lot.". Anything that looks like it's going to hurt them, they'll throw it away.

And as I said again, the Republicans are under a different set of pressures now that they aren't the Shadow Government/Opposition.

edited 14th Nov '16 5:28:22 PM by PotatoesRock

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#155102: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:28:42 PM

[up] Isn't that a Batman quote? Or did one get it from the other?

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155103: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:29:13 PM

When Obama won the electoral vote, he won the popular vote too. Nobody cared then. When Trump won the electoral vote, his popular vote count was greatly outnumbered by Hillary's. And her numbers are climbing faster than his. That's why people are complaining: The electoral result doesn't line up with the popular one.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#155104: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:29:42 PM

I think to determining whether or not splitting the votes would change the outcome in this case requires more math than any of us have done.

Especially since we don't know how exactly the votes would be split.

But intuitively- one would except her to get roughly half the votes from swing states, and a handful from Red states, most notably Texas and Arizona, at the cost of some votes from blue states- Nevada, Virginia and New Hampshire most prominently, but probably a fair number from NY and the west coast as well.

Which at the very least, sounds more fair to me.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#155105: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:29:50 PM

We really cannot allow someone like Bannon to be normalized and granted legitimacy. It sets a dangerous precedent.

edited 14th Nov '16 5:33:28 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#155106: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:29:59 PM

[up][up][up] My understanding is it does on a state by state basis, just not in total

edited 14th Nov '16 5:30:16 PM by sgamer82

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#155107: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:30:31 PM

It still wouldn't help. We need to get rid of it altogether.
No, getting states to split their electoral college vote is actually a much more doable goal that would accomplish very nearly the same thing. Abolishing the electoral college entirely would require a constitutional amendment, while how electoral college votes are appointed is governed by state law, so is much easier to change.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#155108: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:33:17 PM

Yes, but then all red states have to do is stay winner-take-all while blue states go proportional and we'd have Republicans in the White House forever and ever. The Federal government cannot mandate how states apportion electors because the Constitution says it's up to them. So an amendment is the only permanent way to fix the system.

edited 14th Nov '16 5:34:07 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#155109: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:34:47 PM

Dear members of the Electorial College,

Please note the idiots Trump is willing to hand power to. Please note that he's hoping to rope his family into government by the backdoor, which doubles down on that. Please note the nonsensical flip-flopping and gymnastic routines poor old policy is being whipped into doing.

If you want to justify your existence as the gatekeepers of American democracy (it's hard to type that with a straight face), you might wish to rethink your vote. Because this degree of naked nepotism and patronage would put C18th England to shame.

All my best wishes, (I wouldn't want your jobs if I got paid in lorry loads),

Euo.

edited 14th Nov '16 5:35:16 PM by Euodiachloris

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#155110: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:40:44 PM

[up][up]What I'd suggest: Focus on Texas. Because it's threatening to become a swing state, and the prospect of losing all 38 Texan votes should scare Republicans enough that they'd be willing to consider a compromise. But it's also one of the states where going off winner takes all would have the strongest effect.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#155111: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:41:46 PM

No, getting states to split their electoral college vote is actually a much more doable goal that would accomplish very nearly the same thing. Abolishing the electoral college entirely would require a constitutional amendment, while how electoral college votes are appointed is governed by state law, so is much easier to change.

Actually, you can effectively remove the electoral college by changing state law as well. As long as you convince enough states to pledge their votes based on the the national vote, instead of the local one. And that is actually easier, because you only need enough states so the sum of votes is 270. Meanwhile, for the proportional vote to work you would need every state to agree, else the election becomes lopsided.

As a matter of fact, this initiative already exist. There is even a website dedicated to it.

StarOutlaw Since: Nov, 2010
#155112: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:42:43 PM

A split vote It might not be the best solution, but I do believe it would help better represent voters who vote in the minority within their states. They could at least score some electoral votes instead of none, and not worry about having to convert the entire state.

The difference between the EC and PV in this election is something that needs to be seriously examined. When it happened in 2000, the Electoral votes were also extremely close, only a difference of 5. This time though, the difference is much wider. Not only is the amount of popular votes Hillary has over Trump likely going to end up being at least twice as many as Gore had over Bush, but the gap between the Electoral votes is far wider at 58. That's over 11x the number of Electoral votes Bush got over Gore.

Honestly, I didn't think too much of it before, but it's dawning on me how extremely unusual this is. The two results go beyond merely contradicting each other, the EC results severely skew the reality of how people voted. Compromise or not, something needs changing.

edited 14th Nov '16 5:44:15 PM by StarOutlaw

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#155113: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:43:37 PM

I'm perfectly fine with it being an Amendment. It's far better when it's pure popularity vote.

Everybody has a right to have a fair say in it. It's worthless if the vote doesn't count just because it's an electoral vote.

The system needs to go, period. There's absolutely zero point in making it so it affects the states with the same amount per. The problem is entirely that tons of votes mean nothing, not just that some states get more electoral votes than others. It makes more sense for the entire country to properly choose their own President, not just a select few members. It's also way more fair. Many don't vote just because they know it doesn't count. They'll only vote for stuff they affect. Who can blame 'em? The electoral vote is clearly a bad system.

edited 14th Nov '16 5:44:37 PM by Irene

Shadow?
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#155115: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:45:17 PM

So it looks like the army is considering a temporary halt to the DAPL. Or at least that's what I'm getting out of the letter.

By the way, how would we achieve point 3 on that above Facebook link (the one about calling out the media)? I don't expect leaving comments on the news articles or writing a social media post about it would do much good as it's too easy to drown in the noise, and I'm not subscribed to any news sites that I can threaten to revoke my membership of as financial punishment. .

edited 14th Nov '16 5:52:41 PM by AlleyOop

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#155116: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:51:38 PM

Is there any legal precedent (post Kennedy, and even Bobbie had a real position) for the president's family to get security clearance? Especially while they are managing a private business empire?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#155117: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:59:02 PM

According to Google, Hillary is beating Trump in the Popular Vote by 671,246 people.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#155118: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:05:47 PM

Different media outlets are reporting different numbers due to delays in updating and receiving information, but all reputable sources I've seen including CNN, The Associated Press, The Cook Political Report and the Washington Post consistently put Hillary 650,000 - 800,000 votes ahead of Trump.

EDIT: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/clintons-popular-vote-lead-will-grow-and-grow/507455/ According to this, Hillary might be ahead of Trump by as much as 2% when all votes are counted.

edited 14th Nov '16 6:12:41 PM by Draghinazzo

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#155119: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:07:34 PM

Crimson Zephyr:

Donald Trump flip-flops so much, it's legitimately uncomfortable taking anything he says at face value. Like, if he said, "I am not going to send all brown people to the gas chambers," I would still be nervous about being disappeared.

Then prepare to be disappointed, because he just backpedaled massively on the "deport all the brown people" promise:

"Ryan says Trump 'not planning' mass deportations"

Trump goes into more detail about this in his 100-Day Plan. There, he says he's deporting undocumented immigrants with criminal records, not just undocumented immigrants in general. He specifically cites a figure of 2 million people to potentially be deported, which was basically made up by an anti-immigration group (true number of criminals is probably around 600,000), which is a far cry from his previous claim of deporting all 12 million undocumented immigrants. Likely we'll just see a slightly stricter version of Obama's policy in regards to illegals.

Next up: "Trump announces that he's not withdrawing from TPP, says free trade isn't so bad".

edited 14th Nov '16 6:09:59 PM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#155120: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:09:28 PM

Well, things just keep getting worse

“Breitbart will now go from being the propaganda arm of the Trump campaign to effectively becoming a state-run medium,” said Kurt Bardella, Breitbart’s former spokesman. “They will exist to tell the narrative of the Trump presidency to their audience to ensure their alternate reality they successfully ran on stays intact regardless of the situational reality and condition of this country. There is no separation between Breitbart and the Trump White House.”

But what about Hillary's EMAILS!?!

New Survey coming this weekend!
StarOutlaw Since: Nov, 2010
#155121: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:19:14 PM

[up]GFD...

Also, I did some googling and found this. Scroll down to the chart.

So apparently the gap between the EC and PV was actually worse than it is now in 1888, at 65 instead of 58.

Anyone else notice that every time the PV is higher than the EC, the Democrat lost?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#155122: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:21:27 PM

[up][up][up] "Trump announces that he's not withdrawing from TPP, says free trade isn't so bad"

This would be a good way to piss off his base and progressives.

[up] The GOP do usually have more luck with the lower population rural areas than the Democratic Party.

edited 14th Nov '16 6:22:42 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#155123: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:21:49 PM

Anyone else notice that every time the PV is higher than the EC, the Democrat lost?
Not in 1824; all candidates were Democrat-Republicans. Additionally, 2/4 of the remaining examples were in the 19th century. The 19th century Democrats were basically a different party from the Democrats of the 21st century.

[up][up][up] "Trump announces that he's not withdrawing from TPP, says free trade isn't so bad"

This would be a good way to piss off his base and progressives.

Meanwhile, economists will be smiling. wink

edited 14th Nov '16 6:23:30 PM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
BrainSewage from that one place Since: Jan, 2001
#155124: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:22:57 PM

[up]x7 Yeah, that's what I'm getting out of it. Doesn't matter, though. Trump will just send in tanks.

How dare you disrupt the sanctity of my soliloquy?
StarOutlaw Since: Nov, 2010
#155125: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:23:05 PM

[up][up]Yeah, you're right, I forgot about that. That's on me, thank you for pointing that out.

edited 14th Nov '16 6:23:25 PM by StarOutlaw


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