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BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#154926: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:38:24 AM

Another thing that I'm really curious/worried/annoyed by is the Supreme Court. I get that the nominations are for life precisely to protect the court from short-term swings in the popular opinions and political fluctuations, but the situation we have now is that a seat will have been vacant for almost (or possibly even more than) a year before being filled, and then you've got some 75+-year-olds worrying whether they'll last 4 years (or 8) to make sure the court doesn't get stacked by one party.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#154927: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:03:09 AM

The most infuriating thing about the SC right now is that the Republicans played obstructionist again and no one can even pretend there was a good reason for it, but no one cares, either. So now we are getting an extreme conservative SC replacement instead of Obama's (as per usual) incredibly inoffensive compromise suggestion, guaranteed. For absolutely no reason other than the Republicans felt like taking the gamble and Obama had absolutely no defense against it, even though it's legally unprecedented and transparently morally indefensible, self-serving partisan bullshit.

Being just back up to a lot of really annoying 5-4 conservative rulings for decades is the best case scenario. Ginsburg needs to stuff her soul in a lich phylactery or this country's legal landscape is going to be set back fifty years' worth FOR fifty years.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#154928: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:03:47 AM

Well, Canada does the same thing, but in our case, the nomination has to be confirmed by the Senate, which is also nominated for life. I know the Senate keeps being the wrench in the works because they keep moving in directions the current government doesn't expect.

I think the Governor General also has something to do with the Supreme Court but I'm not sure what.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#154929: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:05:56 AM

...So is anyone else experiencing panic attacks after looking at the people Trump will choose as his Cabinet members?

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#154930: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:07:46 AM

Democrats asked Ginsburg to retire either shortly before Obamas reelection or after it.

She refused.

And goddamn if it's not biting us in the ass

New Survey coming this weekend!
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#154931: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:09:08 AM

Kind of, yeah. At best, they're morally bankrupt and spineless, but at least have experience in office. Most of them, though, are completely inexperienced and are morally bankrupt.

Although discovering that none of them knew that the West Wing staff needs to be different between each President, and as such, the incoming President needs to hire all new staff. Makes me think that the Trump cabinet isn't actually going to be all that functional.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#154932: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:11:20 AM

Okay...I think I now kind of get why it works, but not why anyone thought that a system like this would be a good idea. Count me in as being a fan of the proportional system (with the 5% hurdle). Granted, I am biased there, because that's what my country does, but it actually works fairly well for us, since it forces our politicians to reach a consent. Thus said the most effective governments tend to be the ones which have an overwhelmingly strong coalition.

ThePaul Since: Jun, 2015
#154933: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:24:17 AM

Expressing desire to eject illegal immigrants on the basis that they are in your country illegally and wanting to tighten up border security aren't explicitly racist ideas

Well, it requires you to either be ignorant of who Trump might work with regarding the efforts to eject illegal immigrants and naive regarding how that's likely to play out, or accepting of the same. The latter case is racist.

Same thing with Muslims since he expressed the desire to deny them entry into the country within the context of protecting LGBTQ people from potentially harmful ideologies.

Technically, as phrased, that's religious bigotry and not racism, since there's an assumption built into that that Muslims are necessarily a dnager to LGBTQ people.

In practice the American prejudice towards "Muslim" involves hate and fear of a relgion/conception of a religion, but it is heavily racialized and hate crimes against "Muslims" can fall on anyone who looks like they might be of Middle Eastern decent. The actual religious convictions of the potential target don't have a lot to do with it.

In the same way, the fear of "Muslims" that Trump was tapping into is closely related to a fear of brown people.

...and no one genuinely concerned for the well being of LGBTQ people does business withe the political faction represented by Mike Pence.

edited 14th Nov '16 6:25:59 AM by ThePaul

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#154934: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:27:51 AM

[up] At the very least, Trump should not have made Mike Pence his friggin' Vice President. That psycho is just itching to torture the crap out of gay people.

edited 14th Nov '16 6:28:39 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#154935: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:36:02 AM

(Politico) Schumer is hinting that the Democrats in the Senate will refuse to act like the GOP did for Obama's years, willing to play ball on projects that Democrats and Republicans can agree on, while preserving the Filibuster for "As Needed" events.

Mitch McConnell is signalling similar agreement. He'll let the Democrats obstruct by not nuking the procedure if they use the Filibuster in a sparing manner.

So basically the only thing keeping the Republicans from going complete caca over the country is Mitch is one of the Good Ol' Boys who still plays "Fair", even if he was a giant dick for the last 6 years.

edited 14th Nov '16 6:39:25 AM by PotatoesRock

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#154936: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:42:08 AM

Ball's in his court, and if he's willing to preserve the filibuster, so be it. I just don't hope this means Schumer's going to roll over and lend legitimacy to most of Trump's plan, that would be a sign that our party is truly lost and needs to be purged top-to-bottom while we spend a generation in the wilderness and rebuild.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#154937: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:43:38 AM

I trust that deal to last exactly as long as it takes the Republicans to find a situation where they benefit from breaking it and then acting like they never made it in the first place.

Here's hoping it doesn't result in the 'reasonable compromise' legislative goalpost shifting rightwards some more.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#154938: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:46:44 AM

[up] And you know it will. It's not like anything is really standing in their way.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#154939: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:54:23 AM

The thing is, the old gentleman's agreement is hanging by a thread. Sure the GOP has shown immense shortsightedness recently (although it seems to be working gangbusters for them), but they have to think about the future. If they're willing to make it so that a 48-member minority has zero voice in the process, which is what nuking the filibuster would do, they have to accept that the same thing will happen to them in 4 years, or 6, or 8. Their grip will erode eventually and relegating the minority to permanent powerlessness is not a move McConnell is eager to make, to railroad today he has to accept a future where Republicans will get railroaded.

I agree that we shouldn't signal endless obstructionism for two reasons: 1) that's what being the adult in the room is about and 2) there's a prime chance to drive a wedge between Trump and congress over Trump's more populist plans on jobs, trade, and spending and the congressional GOP's aim, which will be a giveaway to the plutocrats and nothing more.

PhilosopherStones Anyways Here's Darude Sandstorm from The North (lots of planets have them) (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Anyways Here's Darude Sandstorm
#154940: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:20:20 AM

Pence is a hell of an assassination insurance policy if you ask me.

GIVE ME YOUR FACE
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#154941: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:28:47 AM

Not really, he's going to be able to do what he wants to do anyway, the only thing Pence would get access to via promotion to president proper is the nuclear codes and that's the one thing nobody is worried about him having.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#154942: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:47:48 AM

The Vice President is traditionally a generally impotent position. I say traditionally because there are some hints that Donald Trump is willing to give his V Ps a lot of his presidential duties, though to what extent is as of yet unknown.

The real question is how exactly shit's gonna work here. Trump clearly wants to keep the evangelical fundamentalist vote, but Mike Pence might lead the charge in genuinely unprecedented directions that not even Trump would approve of. To put this in historical perspective, Pence is the John Calhoun to Trump's Andrew Jackson, and shit did not go well for John C. Calhoun. So I wouldn't worry about state funded gay conversion concentration camps.... yet, at least until we have a better handle on exactly what Trump's game plan is.

With that in mind, I think the people that should be worrying the most as of now are the environmentalists, who are basically fucked seven ways to capital hill. Pro-choice supporters are gonna have one hell of a battle, but I doubt that even a Republican stacked Supreme Court would be so ready to repeal such a landmark decision as Roe v. Wade. Then it's anyone who cares about.... well, anything on the Cabinet, which is most people considering how far the cabinet reaches.

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#154943: Nov 14th 2016 at 8:02:59 AM

@ Swanpride The reason the US election process is set up the way it is, is because when it was created, the US was not really a single nation. It was more of a collection of states similar to the EU. Every state wants to have their way, especially the slave states. The system was just never really updated to accommodate the modern times.

Speaking of updating, a really terrifying result of this election is that the GOP only need to control one more state legislature to be able to start amending the constitution and can ram anything they want thru it....

edited 14th Nov '16 9:35:41 AM by nightwyrm_zero

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#154944: Nov 14th 2016 at 8:05:02 AM

Cheney was known as a very powerful Vice President - Bush was willing to delegate a lot of decision-making to Cheney. (I suppose it was probably a good call, too, because Bush was stupid as fuck. I mean, not as stupid as Trump but down there.)

When Obama came to power the thinking was that the VP under Bush had had too much power, so they went back to a more normal system where the VP is almost entirely ceremonial most of the time.

Incidentally, some VPs have been very willing to talk about how impotent they felt in that position. I'm not going to bother looking up their names because the fact I don't remember them sort of makes my point, but one actually stayed in his regular job (which I think was shopkeeper - he might have owned the shop, as well) while serving as VP. He didn't even bother to move to Washington. One VP told this story: "There were two brothers. One ran away to sea. One became Vice President. Neither was heard of again."

So that's the historical situation with the position of VP. It's obviously changed, and it varies from one administration to the next, but that's the ballpark. (They do still get security briefings and so on, so they do still have loads more sensitive information than almost anyone else in the country. That's quite a lot of power in itself, even if they never have the occasion to use it.)

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#154945: Nov 14th 2016 at 8:12:06 AM

I just don't hope this means Schumer's going to roll over and lend legitimacy to most of Trump's plan
He's basically saying "We'll go for your more reasonable campaign promises like Infrastructure and Chinese Currency Manipulation, but crazy whackadoodle stuff like gutting Medicare and Social Security we'll fight" is what I'm reading it as.

The thing is, the old gentleman's agreement is hanging by a thread. Sure the GOP has shown immense shortsightedness recently (although it seems to be working gangbusters for them), but they have to think about the future. If they're willing to make it so that a 48-member minority has zero voice in the process, which is what nuking the filibuster would do, they have to accept that the same thing will happen to them in 4 years, or 6, or 8. Their grip will erode eventually and relegating the minority to permanent powerlessness is not a move Mc Connell is eager to make, to railroad today he has to accept a future where Republicans will get railroaded.
The main thing holding it together is McConnell "plays the game". He's all into the Kabuki theatre of politics, and does do work of across the lines (which is how Biden managed to secure a lot of last minute deals because the two were friends and fairly principled.)

Basically the Republicans are being restrained by the Majority Leader not being a rabid nutball and more of an old time politician.

edited 14th Nov '16 8:16:08 AM by PotatoesRock

InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#154946: Nov 14th 2016 at 8:12:33 AM

[up] Bush wasn't too stupid, in fact I'd argue that the stupidest thing he did was delegate so much power to Cheney.

In any case, I don't think it'll be a direct Cheney 2 situation. Trump may be totally okay with giving the establishment positions in his cabinet, but he's still Trump. He's fundamentally unpredictable, which is perhaps the best thing about someone like him. Even if he gives Pence a lot of oversight under his administration, there's no guarantee that someone like Pence wouldn't clash frequently with Trump's Trumpism.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#154947: Nov 14th 2016 at 8:12:58 AM

[up]x4 And if they do, at the very least, there are going to be riots like nobody's ever seen, and at the most, it's Civil War. And so long as they aren't complete morons, this will be what will keep the Republicans from going down that route, unless they want the angriest mob they've ever seen attempting to storm the White House.

edited 14th Nov '16 8:14:02 AM by kkhohoho

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#154948: Nov 14th 2016 at 8:15:18 AM

Like I've said before, Trump is almost absurdly catty. If he even gets the hint that someone else is trying to cut him out of the loop, he's going to get super nit picky about literally everything everyone but him does.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#154949: Nov 14th 2016 at 8:18:32 AM

@ VP role: This traces back to the Founding Fathers as well. The Constitution doesn't really go into what the VP is supposed to do beyond break ties in the Senate, which gave an implication that its role was primarily for the legislative branch. Coupled with the fact that back then VP's were elected separately from the president, George Washington didn't think it appropriate for him to rely too much on his vice president, John Adams.

It wasn't until late in his presidency that Washington started sounding out Adams more and more as his potential successor who would carry on his non-partisan view of the executive.

Exemplified here, where Washington seeks Adams council after keeping him out of the loop for so long.

edited 14th Nov '16 8:18:52 AM by Parable

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#154950: Nov 14th 2016 at 8:21:08 AM

[up]x3 You have a much more optimistic view of the US electorate than me. Half of the population didn't even bothered to come out to vote against a proto-fascist.

edited 14th Nov '16 8:21:19 AM by nightwyrm_zero


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