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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#154751: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:55:14 PM

Jetyl, we have always been divided. You're just now becoming aware of just what that division is and over what. Just because you didn't see it didn't mean it wasn't just as bad before.

And you know what? We've survived that sort of thing. We came out of the Civil Rights movement a better country. And I think we can come out of this a better country in the end. This whole going to the most extreme end is just fear talking. Fear's not a good thing to lead with.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#154752: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:57:38 PM

[up][up]That's the Republicans for you. When people get old and sick, if they aren't rich enough to support themselves and pay for their own medicine, just let 'em die. "Decrease the surplus population," as Ebenezer Scrooge said...

edited 13th Nov '16 4:58:43 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#154753: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:59:10 PM

This is the sort of thing we mean when we say Republicans vote against their interests. You have economic anxiety now? How bad do you think that will be when you lose your social security and medicare? What are your plans for retirement then?

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#154754: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:59:21 PM

Russia hypothetically might, but it has no reason to as of right now. Britain and France would be the next closest hope, I think, and even then it's a stretch.

Unfortunately, the UK is on its own march to destroying democracy, so I don't think that would be happening... that's ignoring that the UK doesn't have the military force to oppose the US and what military force we do have tends to require US cooperation for storage, maintenance and replacement.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154755: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:11:59 PM

And France could very well elect a leader who is even more of a fascist than Trump and friends (yes, in a year or so Elizabeth May could be the sanest leader among the 3 Western nuclear powers. Have fun.), while the UK may or may not (depending on how they act once out of the EU and its pesky guarantees of rights) go the route of an illiberal democracy (the major parties aren't extreme but some of them have a questionable commitment to democracy and equality).

If Trump does turn out to be what everyone feared, no one nice (and probably no one at all) in the world will be in a position to be able to or willing to stop him. Only the American people can do that.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#154756: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:13:53 PM

Then, the current situation is that whennote  France goes Fascist, all five nuclear members of the security council will be ruled by nationalist dickheads. great.

edited 13th Nov '16 5:14:30 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#154757: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:16:39 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#154758: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:17:08 PM

The key thing to keep in mind is Trump is basically holding together a very unstable coalition of the GOP.

Randians like Ryan, Evangelicals like Pence, Alt-Right like Bannon and Libertarians like Thiel, and the Tea Party (if the Alt-Right hasn't eaten their brains out yet) are competing factions. Smartest option is to make them turn on each other. Use the power of Congress that can be used, also try and use systematic forces of having constituents and lobbyist groups hiss at the various factions. Leadership tends to exert different pressures than being the Opposition does.

Probably optimistic (and cynical) but the most logical strategy is for Democrats and for activists to basically drive wedges into the Republicans' fault lines. Cause the internal fissures to grow.

Are we entering the End War timeline, or the Fallout timeline at this rate?
Sleazy Cyberpunk Crude Dystopia is most likely. I found it most aptly put as:

"Ronald Reagan promised us that it was “morning in America” in our “shining city on a hill” …"

"Donald Trump seems to believe we’re all in a late night drive thru at Taco Bell after a long, hard night of drinking, and we’re afraid we might have the sharts."

edited 13th Nov '16 5:18:39 PM by PotatoesRock

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#154759: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:19:38 PM

[up][up]I'm guessing a Dr Strangelove like timeline.

[up]Isn't Thiel Alt-right too?

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154760: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:19:40 PM

I wouldn't call the British Conservatives full on nationalists, at least as a whole. But they certainly lack the courage or the ability to stop the world from spiraling downwards.

As a whole, the world will become multi-polar again but the poles individually won't be very friendly. India and whatever is left of the EU are the only major power blocs that are insulated from being run by ideologies at this rate.

edited 13th Nov '16 5:21:07 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#154761: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:25:54 PM

Guess it's time to destine my life to the creation of a united Latin american state (Canada gets an honorary invitation because French is latin-derived; so does any US state that has been part of the Spanish empire at any point in the past) as an alternative power block to try and keep the US in check.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#154762: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:28:10 PM

Isn't Thiel Alt-right too?
Last I heard, he was a Libertarian. Point is, the GOP is being held together by a coalition that has shown in the last 6 years that if you can provide the right wedges, they will start undermining each other to grab power over each other.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154763: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:31:59 PM

But isn't Brazil going off the deep end to, to say nothing of Venezuela?

Point is: no one is going to be able to stop Trump from the outside. Any form of economic blackmail/leverage is mutually ruinous. And while Trump is unlikely to use the American military outside of the usual targets (ME, Iran, maybe a few places in Africa and Asia), its not like anyone else can stop him either.

The post-WW 2 order has always depended on the US being run by rational individuals, and no matter how flawed various Presidents have been they've never truly threatened it. But Trump... is probably the worst thing to happen internationally since The Axis, if he's as bad as we all fear. Its going to get worse before it gets better.

Foreign policy wise: the best we can hope for is Bush style unilateralism and ideologically driven stupidity.

This is America's mess, and somehow Americans have to clean it up.

edited 13th Nov '16 5:33:22 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#154764: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:33:56 PM

Brazil's spiralling out of control but it isn't impossible to hold back the tide and get it back on track. All we need is survive Temer and ellect someone who's not Bolsonaro next time around and the country will still exist.

...Boy that sounds a lot more difficult when I say it out loud.

edited 13th Nov '16 5:34:57 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154765: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:33:57 PM

Some suspect that Trump is deliberately assembling a cabinet that is going to insight extensively by design; as detrimental as that would be to the functioning of the government, encouraging that kind of factionalism and moving in to fill the vacuum it leaves is one strategy for consolidating power.

[up][up] I think that's a bit too optimistic, ruthless Kissinger-era realpolitik is the best case scenario for Trump's foreign policy.

edited 13th Nov '16 5:37:13 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154766: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:37:18 PM

I consider Kissinger and Nixon to be better than Bush 43 and the Neoconservatives. At least they valued stability, even if they were utterly amoral and had a questionable success rate.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154767: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:41:43 PM

[up] I'm envisioning the worst of both worlds; utterly ruthless, indifferent to human rights violations, and willing to abandon allies at the drop of a hat should it suit his agenda, but also severely lacking in foresight and placing little value on stability.

edited 13th Nov '16 5:47:15 PM by CaptainCapsase

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#154768: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:42:30 PM

@rmctagg09:

I think we're head to a Deus Ex future myself. And that might be the best case scenario.

Disgusted, but not surprised
LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#154769: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:43:26 PM

What are HRC's corporate ties that I so often hear about? The Wall Street speeches?

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154770: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:45:06 PM

[up] Well that and personal relationships with major blocs of investors, plus a campaign warchest that wasn't nearly as diversified as what Obama had. A conflict of interests, but nothing compared to what Trump has going on, and not especially unusual for a politician.

edited 13th Nov '16 5:46:56 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154771: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:45:53 PM

[up]up][up]And without the cool tech.

[up][up]Typical politician ties.

[up][up][up][up]So, Bush incompetence+Nixon's lack of empathy=worst case Trump foreign policy. Awesome.

edited 13th Nov '16 5:46:14 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154772: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:49:37 PM

Repealing Roe vs Wade wouldn't be that bad Trump asserts, since women could just go to a different state to get an abortion if they lived in a state banning the practice.

sad

edited 13th Nov '16 5:49:49 PM by CaptainCapsase

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#154773: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:50:08 PM

But isn't Brazil going off the deep end to, to say nothing of Venezuela?

Venezuela seems like it's at the tail end of Maduro's regime. I think the furthest he can possibly get is 2019 (the constitutional end of his presidency) without sparking a revolution. Then it's a matter of actually being willing to help the people of the country to develop.

As for Brazil, well, if shit goes wrong I'll be happy with consolidating Hispanoamérica only, but on the bright side, it looks as if most people prefer either Marina Silva (the ecologist, I think) or Lula (the one who started the mess) again before Bolsonaro (the fascist one), so, unless he pulls a +20% upset, this one looks far away for now.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154774: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:51:32 PM

That probably wouldn't be that easy to do. He's asking for them to make money come out of nowhere. If things like same sex marriage were left to states' rights, really red places still wouldn't allow interracial marriage.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#154775: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:53:02 PM

Have fun.), while the UK may or may not (depending on how they act once out of the EU and its pesky guarantees of rights) go the route of an illiberal democracy (the major parties aren't extreme but some of them have a questionable commitment to democracy and equality).

There's no 'may or may not'. Theresa May's determination to create a precedence whereby Parliament does not needs to be consulted on any constitutional amendment means that Parliament ceases to function and the government can pass whatever it wants without parliamentary oversight (this is why there was a recent legal challenge that succeeded and why Theresa May is appealing the legal decision in the Supreme Court).

I wouldn't call the British Conservatives full on nationalists, at least as a whole. But they certainly lack the courage or the ability to stop the world from spiraling downwards.

May has taken UKIP's ground. That may not put her into BNP territory, but given her historic record for attempting to tear up or circumvent human rights, her anti-LBGT positions, and the fact she's pushed the Tories so far right they're now standing on UKIP's ground, the British government is effectively in the position where they're actively encouraging the world's downward spiral.

We've currently got Farage apparently trying to set himself up as some kind of middle-man between Theresa May and Donald Trump, something that will be truly be appalling for anyone's democracy. Fox News has already referred to Farage as the 'leader of the UK Opposition Party' and the 'leader of the Brexit campaign'. He's actually neither (he's not even an MP), but he's being treated like the UK's official representative to the US President-Elect.

The implications of this should terrify people on both sides of the Pond.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

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