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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Jetyl The Dev Cat from my apartment Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The Dev Cat
#154726: Nov 13th 2016 at 3:49:38 PM

honestly, the idea that a civil war could occur seems more and more likely as the years go by.

not a civil war like The Civil War, but generally, I've only seen the divide in this country growing bigger and bigger through my lifetime, and I'll be damned if Trump actually does anything to improve this situation.

not sure what will happen, but I'm beginning to seriously doubt this divide will be resolved peacefully. :C

I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?
dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154727: Nov 13th 2016 at 3:52:42 PM

It's not like it's an isolated incident either, what with Brexit and all. I think the US might actually enter civil war over this, especially since Hillary's estimated to have one of the widest popular vote margins in US history, yet Trump did win the electoral college.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154728: Nov 13th 2016 at 3:55:07 PM

Here's a disturbing thought: my country has been in multiple dictatorships (which I've mentioned a few times before, yes). One of the big reasons why the second one came to an end was because, even though the CIA backed their coup, it wasn't exactly interesting to keep that regime in power anymore.

So my question is in the apocalyptic scenario of the US going full fascist, who can even pressure them when they have the strongest military in the world? I'm not under the illusion that regime would last forever since the world is always changing, but it's a frightening thought.

edited 13th Nov '16 3:55:55 PM by Draghinazzo

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#154729: Nov 13th 2016 at 3:58:00 PM

Russia hypothetically might, but it has no reason to as of right now. Britain and France would be the next closest hope, I think, and even then it's a stretch.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#154730: Nov 13th 2016 at 3:59:36 PM

It's not heartening that many people seem to be hanging their hopes on the idea that "maybe now that Trump's won, he will just suddenly become a completely different person than he has been for his entire campaign."
"Si yo decía lo que iba a hacer, no me votaba nadie"note  - Carlos Saúl Menem, one of the most disliked presidents in the history of Argentina (counting just the democratically elected ones)

Fuck me. The Republic of Michigan seems very appealing now.
Does it sound so appealing now?

[up][up]If us in Argentina and Brazil, with such weak institutions and democratic traditions, could tell the army to go fuck itself, the one thing I can trust the people of the USA to do correctly at this moment is to be capable of doing the same.

edited 13th Nov '16 4:03:23 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#154731: Nov 13th 2016 at 3:59:40 PM

France might succumb to Le Pen, though..

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#154732: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:00:19 PM

It's clear at this point that Russia backed Trump, and they're probably ecstatic over his win. We can expect no help from them. If anything, they'll probably only help him further consolidate his power, to further their own interests.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154734: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:08:21 PM

I don't think the GOP has the supermajorities it needs to start changing the constitution. And Trump and his model aren't sustainable barring an economic "miracle", and if they blatantly rig elections Americans will riot over that.

Its going to suck for the US and the world no matter, the best we can hope for is that current rulings/laws stay mostly intact and the post-WW 2 global order survives (keep an eye on France...).

edited 13th Nov '16 4:09:30 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#154735: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:10:33 PM

[up]Any supermajority is possible with enough gerrymandering and selective allocation of Electoral College votes.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#154736: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:23:24 PM

I'd like to remind everyone bitching about the possibility of a Civil War that the Civil Rights movement, as ugly and violent as it got, did not break out in Civil War 2. I get that we're all worried and emotions are running high, but immediately running to the most extreme scenario (Which happens aFUCKINGlot in this thread regarding the prospects of a civil war) is not actually constructive in any sense of the word. For people talking about how others can't see historical parallels, you sure are ignoring counterarguments against such a thing happening. (I've said dozens of times that several things have to go wrong for that to happen, and it definitely requires more than a jackass obtaining the presidency.)

Can we please stop bringing it up and concentrate on more likely things? Like a repeat of the previously mentioned Civil Rights movement?

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#154737: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:24:42 PM

[up]That's another thing I hadn't thought of. We're going to go through the late 50's and 60's all over again, aren't we?

edited 13th Nov '16 4:25:04 PM by kkhohoho

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#154738: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:27:12 PM

Anyone know if anything new came out of those last handful of states whose vote counts are apparently still unfinalized, and if they turn to Clinton they'll result in an electoral deadlock barring one or more faithless electors deciding to vote in contradiciton to their home state's winning majority? I also remember that there were serious questions raised about the reliability of this one state's vote count... I think it was Florida.

edited 13th Nov '16 4:28:27 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#154739: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:30:35 PM

I think it was mostly Michigan or something where the counts were razor thin apart, or in states that Clinton was already winning and just had a fuckton of people, like California.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#154740: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:31:43 PM

Whatever the case, it isn't going to make a difference. Neither is there any realistic possibility of the electoral college revolting (or of that ending well if it does).

We're getting President Trump. It's too late to do anything about that. What happens next is anyone's guess.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#154741: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:35:23 PM

Since there's already protests and he lost the popular vote, maybe someone could direct them towards the place the EC meets to vote and try to pressure them to vote for Hillary and respect the choice of the majority. No guarantees that'll end well though.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154742: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:37:07 PM

I know there's a National Popular Vote Compact going around, but the only states supporting it are already deep blue already, for obvious reasons. This sort of situation seems like the exact situation the EC was created to stop, electing an unqualified president.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#154743: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:40:54 PM

More than they didn't trust the common man. Anyway, I think at this point trying to change how the EC votes is going to set a bad precedent that can be used against Democrats as easily as it could be used for it, and cause Clinton's theoretical presidency to be dogged for four years for issues of legitimacy. And they wouldn't be entirely wrong.

I think a better long term plan would be to start building up pressure to get rid of the Electoral College, or to legally change the Winner Takes All method of apportioning votes that the EC uses in 48 states.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#154744: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:41:20 PM

Heer Jeet of The New Republic arguing that if the Democrats want to do anything about Ryan's plan to smash Medicare and Obamacare, they need to basically make this a wedge issue tying Trump who promised to support at least Medicare, to Ryan, who wants to smash them.

Smashing Medicare is vastly unpopular, even with Trump Voters. If the Democrats want to take any of the wind out of Trump's sails, turning Ryan into the Albatross around his neck is probably the smartest option at the moment, to discredit Trump. Congressional Republicans would scurry away like Cockroaches from constituents complaining about their Medicare and the like being taken away. (Which is typically why it never works, even when they have a political majority.)

(There's also the fact Bannon, a paranoid nutjob, despises Ryan.)

edited 13th Nov '16 4:42:26 PM by PotatoesRock

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#154745: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:44:15 PM

Hell, we might end up with a House Divided at the top, given this unusual mix of non-team players. Our best bet may be to see the Democrats ensure that none of those guys ever get along.

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#154746: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:45:28 PM

[up][up]Yeah, that would be the smart thing to do. Don't know if the Dems can get their act together quick enough though.

[up]For all that GOP appears to be in a position of strength (which they are, I'll grant), there are deep fractures within the party. Fractures that was made visible during Trump's rise and only glossed over now coz they won. Those fractures are still there and if the Dems are smart enough take advantage of it, they could slow or derail some of the GOP's agendas. At the very least, there are the Establishment Republican and the Freedom Caucus and now Trump is throwing in the Alt-Rights. This would make for an awesome TV show if it wasn't real life....

edited 13th Nov '16 4:51:07 PM by nightwyrm_zero

randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#154747: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:50:07 PM

I really don't want us entering a civil war. There'd be so many innocents caught in the crossfire that it wouldn't justify it unless Trump entered full-Hitler mode, which I'm really hoping he doesn't do.

Also I'd like to take the moment to apologize for my previous posts over the past week. They were made out of emotion and I said a lot of things I didn't mean. I've stepped back and calmed down significantly, but I'm still sorry if I came off as a sort of Knight Templar in the wake of the election.

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
Jetyl The Dev Cat from my apartment Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The Dev Cat
#154748: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:50:45 PM

I bring up civil war, because increasingly this country seems to be divided by two sides wanting to pull the country in two very different directions.

now, I by no means think actual war would break out, but I'm saying, this divide is just getting bigger and bigger, and I lose faith that the issue can be resolved peacefully as the years go on. sad

I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#154749: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:52:10 PM

Heard/read somewhere that Trump and/or the Republicans want to get rid of Social Security, too. Any truth to that?

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#154750: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:53:32 PM

It's been their dream for decades. The only real upside is that seriously attempting to do that would turn their primary demographics against them.

edit: Same thing with Medicare.

edited 13th Nov '16 4:53:54 PM by Kostya


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