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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Here's a disturbing thought: my country has been in multiple dictatorships (which I've mentioned a few times before, yes). One of the big reasons why the second one came to an end was because, even though the CIA backed their coup, it wasn't exactly interesting to keep that regime in power anymore.
So my question is in the apocalyptic scenario of the US going full fascist, who can even pressure them when they have the strongest military in the world? I'm not under the illusion that regime would last forever since the world is always changing, but it's a frightening thought.
edited 13th Nov '16 3:55:55 PM by Draghinazzo
Russia hypothetically might, but it has no reason to as of right now. Britain and France would be the next closest hope, I think, and even then it's a stretch.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."![]()
If us in Argentina and Brazil, with such weak institutions and democratic traditions, could tell the army to go fuck itself, the one thing I can trust the people of the USA to do correctly at this moment is to be capable of doing the same.
edited 13th Nov '16 4:03:23 PM by IFwanderer
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KVIt's clear at this point that Russia backed Trump, and they're probably ecstatic over his win. We can expect no help from them. If anything, they'll probably only help him further consolidate his power, to further their own interests.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."I think it also shows that a lot of americans have very poor critical thinking and don't see historical parallels.
I don't think the GOP has the supermajorities it needs to start changing the constitution. And Trump and his model aren't sustainable barring an economic "miracle", and if they blatantly rig elections Americans will riot over that.
Its going to suck for the US and the world no matter, the best we can hope for is that current rulings/laws stay mostly intact and the post-WW 2 global order survives (keep an eye on France...).
edited 13th Nov '16 4:09:30 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.I'd like to remind everyone bitching about the possibility of a Civil War that the Civil Rights movement, as ugly and violent as it got, did not break out in Civil War 2. I get that we're all worried and emotions are running high, but immediately running to the most extreme scenario (Which happens aFUCKINGlot in this thread regarding the prospects of a civil war) is not actually constructive in any sense of the word. For people talking about how others can't see historical parallels, you sure are ignoring counterarguments against such a thing happening. (I've said dozens of times that several things have to go wrong for that to happen, and it definitely requires more than a jackass obtaining the presidency.)
Can we please stop bringing it up and concentrate on more likely things? Like a repeat of the previously mentioned Civil Rights movement?
Anyone know if anything new came out of those last handful of states whose vote counts are apparently still unfinalized, and if they turn to Clinton they'll result in an electoral deadlock barring one or more faithless electors deciding to vote in contradiciton to their home state's winning majority? I also remember that there were serious questions raised about the reliability of this one state's vote count... I think it was Florida.
edited 13th Nov '16 4:28:27 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.Whatever the case, it isn't going to make a difference. Neither is there any realistic possibility of the electoral college revolting (or of that ending well if it does).
We're getting President Trump. It's too late to do anything about that. What happens next is anyone's guess.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."Since there's already protests and he lost the popular vote, maybe someone could direct them towards the place the EC meets to vote and try to pressure them to vote for Hillary and respect the choice of the majority. No guarantees that'll end well though.
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KVMore than they didn't trust the common man. Anyway, I think at this point trying to change how the EC votes is going to set a bad precedent that can be used against Democrats as easily as it could be used for it, and cause Clinton's theoretical presidency to be dogged for four years for issues of legitimacy. And they wouldn't be entirely wrong.
I think a better long term plan would be to start building up pressure to get rid of the Electoral College, or to legally change the Winner Takes All method of apportioning votes that the EC uses in 48 states.
Heer Jeet of The New Republic arguing that if the Democrats want to do anything about
Ryan's plan to smash Medicare and Obamacare, they need to basically make this a wedge issue tying Trump who promised to support at least Medicare, to Ryan, who wants to smash them.
Smashing Medicare is vastly unpopular, even with Trump Voters. If the Democrats want to take any of the wind out of Trump's sails, turning Ryan into the Albatross around his neck is probably the smartest option at the moment, to discredit Trump. Congressional Republicans would scurry away like Cockroaches from constituents complaining about their Medicare and the like being taken away. (Which is typically why it never works, even when they have a political majority.)
(There's also the fact Bannon, a paranoid nutjob, despises Ryan.)
edited 13th Nov '16 4:42:26 PM by PotatoesRock
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Yeah, that would be the smart thing to do. Don't know if the Dems can get their act together quick enough though.
For all that GOP appears to be in a position of strength (which they are, I'll grant), there are deep fractures within the party. Fractures that was made visible during Trump's rise and only glossed over now coz they won. Those fractures are still there and if the Dems are smart enough take advantage of it, they could slow or derail some of the GOP's agendas. At the very least, there are the Establishment Republican and the Freedom Caucus and now Trump is throwing in the Alt-Rights. This would make for an awesome TV show if it wasn't real life....
edited 13th Nov '16 4:51:07 PM by nightwyrm_zero
I really don't want us entering a civil war. There'd be so many innocents caught in the crossfire that it wouldn't justify it unless Trump entered full-Hitler mode, which I'm really hoping he doesn't do.
Also I'd like to take the moment to apologize for my previous posts over the past week. They were made out of emotion and I said a lot of things I didn't mean. I've stepped back and calmed down significantly, but I'm still sorry if I came off as a sort of Knight Templar in the wake of the election.
"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -BurI bring up civil war, because increasingly this country seems to be divided by two sides wanting to pull the country in two very different directions.
now, I by no means think actual war would break out, but I'm saying, this divide is just getting bigger and bigger, and I lose faith that the issue can be resolved peacefully as the years go on.

honestly, the idea that a civil war could occur seems more and more likely as the years go by.
not a civil war like The Civil War, but generally, I've only seen the divide in this country growing bigger and bigger through my lifetime, and I'll be damned if Trump actually does anything to improve this situation.
not sure what will happen, but I'm beginning to seriously doubt this divide will be resolved peacefully. :C
I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?