TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#153826: Nov 11th 2016 at 12:55:16 AM

Something needs to be done about the economic problems in the Rust Belt and so on, yes, but even the "good" Trump voters have just demonstrated that their concerns outweigh the rights and lives of minorities of every stripe. How much do we prioritize their concerns over LGBT+ concerns, over POC concerns, over women's concerns, and how do we draw a line in that prioritization when they've clearly stated that 'zero' is an acceptable amount to them for the non-'white-straight-cis-able-male' side of that balance?
We shouldn't prioritize their concerns over anybody's. The ultimate goal is to convince these people is that they are not playing a zero-sum game. Right now, far too many people believe that any effort to help minorities is for them to achieve superiority, not equality. That needs to be dismantled entirely.

And if they continue to insist that their concerns can only be addressed by fucking over Others - after it is made unequivocally clear that is not case - then they should get called out.

edited 11th Nov '16 12:55:54 AM by Eschaton

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#153827: Nov 11th 2016 at 12:58:20 AM

Look, I'm no supporter of Trump. I have many grievances with this guy and all the tactless statements he made. But I'm just trying to have hope for the future and the like.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#153828: Nov 11th 2016 at 12:58:23 AM

I think part of it isn't just the idiotic "attempts to helps blacks are attempts to make them superior" lot but also people going "yeah life sucks for blacks, my life also sucks but nobody wants to help me", which is kinda a legit complaint if it's aimed at gaining help for them instead of taking help from others.

When we say we can't help rural whites without giving up on minorities we're the ones claiming that it's a zero-sum game.

[up] One can have hope without denying the facts, one of the facts is that Trump is a giant racist.

edited 11th Nov '16 12:59:05 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#153829: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:01:55 AM

[up] Nearly all of his policies in his platform would have disastrous consequences. The people he is planning to choose as his new staff are all corrupt, amoral, incompetent scumbags. His vice-president is a homophobic bigot who thinks that (literally) shocking the gay away is a great idea. And there are no checks on his power since Congress belongs to the GOP, and he's going to be able to fill the SCOTUS with conservatives.

He might very well start trade wars that will screw up the global economy. He might trigger actual wars by abandoning our allies.

Oh, and he also might do away with net neutrality.

edited 11th Nov '16 1:03:45 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#153831: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:03:02 AM

How exactly will he do away with net neutrality? And can you direct me to quotes and the like that show Trump as racist?

Again, I'm a bit behind on all this stuff. Politics really isn't my thing.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#153833: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:06:38 AM

Well I guess that's that.

Trump didn't want the job. He was trying to sabotage himself so he'd lose in the republican primaries in second and then again in the last month against Hillary Clinton.

2016 is a joke year.

Here's another insider saying the same thing.

edited 11th Nov '16 1:07:44 AM by MadSkillz

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#153834: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:07:33 AM

[up][up][up]Start by treating them with less contempt when they visit?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#153835: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:11:18 AM

L Dragon, this article by the Huffington post provides multiple examples of Trump being a racist. This includes Islamophobic (and sexist) remarks to the Khan family, a history of refusing to rent to black people, and disparaging multiple racial groups.

edited 11th Nov '16 1:55:18 AM by SilentColossus

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#153836: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:17:03 AM

Isn't the Huffington Post an overly liberal site though? Heck, nearly every single news site has been doing nothing but stuff like this on him.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#153837: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:17:30 AM

There's sort of a reason for that.

Oh really when?
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#153838: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:18:18 AM

Thing with Michael Moore is I wouldn't even trust my neighbor's dog with him. The second report is a lot more enlightening to me.

[up][up] Don't indulge in the genetic fallacy. Just because they said it doesn't make it not true, not when every other news site says the same thing. Up to you whether to take him seriously but it doesn't change the fact that he said those things and many others.

edited 11th Nov '16 1:20:33 AM by AlleyOop

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#153839: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:22:29 AM

The thing is, it's the fact that nearly every other news site says this stuff that makes me question this. I need the context behind what he was saying.

Granted, some of the stuff he said was indeed stupid (like saying that one judge overseeing his university litigations was Mexican, therefore of course he's against Trump), but I still need to know more.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#153840: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:26:43 AM

[up] It kind of sounds like you're trying to find a reason to believe that Trump isn't really a racist. Or a sexist.

edited 11th Nov '16 1:27:23 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#153841: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:27:34 AM

What other context is there to them? There's skepticism, and then there's pseudoskepticism where you just distrust the news because you think you're supposed to and not out of genuine intellectual doubt.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#153842: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:28:03 AM

@Silasw: That's a good point and I'll choose my words with more care in the future. I've generally tried to avoid discussing politics over the Internet in the past precisely because I'm very good at putting my foot into my mouth.

It's been fun.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#153843: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:29:14 AM

[up]X3 I think the "kind of" there is being to generous.

[up]X4 Do you normally question concencus amongst informed experts just because there's concencus?

edited 11th Nov '16 1:30:47 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#153844: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:32:22 AM

I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of rural whites simply don't have any exposure to minorities growing up. They can't possibly fathom that, as bad as things are for them, there are minorities in the U.S. who have it even worse.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#153845: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:37:56 AM

I suspect that some of them do understand but still care primarily about their issues. On a level the lack of direct exposure means for someone of them it becomes akin to the starving African kid, sure you know it sucks for him much more than it does for you, but your life still sucks and you still want help.

Hell I suspect we all fall into it at times, I've asked for help with my problems despite knowing that others have greater problems than me, that's just human nature.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#153846: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:39:06 AM

I simply need the context on both sides of the equation. Like, I need to know exactly the whole thing he said beyond just a few choice quotes.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#153847: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:40:34 AM

I also think some complaints about minority issues will be perceived as Appeal to Worse Problems.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#153848: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:40:59 AM

[up][up] Trust us, they sound worse in context.

[up] Yeah, there's that too.

Ultimately, I think the HRC campaign team screwed up. They took the Rust Belt states for granted, figuring that as long as people simply looked up their policies, they'd pick the Democratic Party. As was posted earlier, Bill Clinton even warned Robbie Mook that not paying more attention to the Rust Belt was a bad idea. Mook didn't listen.

HRC's campaign and the DNC in general almost seem like embodiments of the Stop Helping Me and Surrounded by Idiots tropes.

edited 11th Nov '16 1:45:20 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#153849: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:41:11 AM

They really haven't been exposed to racial issues. I went to a highschool of 1200 and of them there were maybe 8 black students. Eight

For a ton of people out in rural areas, racial problems just plain don't exist. They can't wrap their minds around it because they've never seen it. They think everything was solved with MLK and that things can't be that bad. They'd have seen it right?

But of course they haven't because there just straight isn't a nonwhite person for miles and miles.

edited 11th Nov '16 1:42:08 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#153850: Nov 11th 2016 at 1:43:33 AM

What "both sides"? Don't give into the Golden Mean Fallacy. The quotes are often presented as are. And it's hard to find an "other side" to saying that a ban ought to be put on all Muslims, unless you're somehow trying to argue that he doesn't think Muslims should be banned at all. If you think the media is biased for simply reporting what he says then the problem falls on the reader oneself for not being a skeptic but a denialist, not the publication.

I suggest reading this and reevaluating the questions you are asking.

edited 11th Nov '16 1:45:51 AM by AlleyOop


Total posts: 417,856
Top