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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153476: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:35:09 PM

Human motivation is rarely that simple. Are Trump's supporters racist? Many if not most are to varying degrees, but except for the most extreme cases, bigotry is not the some total of their motivation; that much is certain for the large number of former Obama voter who defected to Trump.

edited 10th Nov '16 2:39:14 PM by CaptainCapsase

Stormtroper from Little Venice Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
#153477: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:35:15 PM

As suggestions for making your social networks less echo-chambery, first of all, this is a terrible time to have your heartfelt views challenged, wait until things are more calm and then check those you follow/followers for people with opposing views but who aren't deliberately trying to belittle people over them.

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#153478: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:36:09 PM

Draghinazzo: Here is an example of that going well then.

I suggest you read the entire thread. Might cheer you up.

edited 10th Nov '16 2:36:56 PM by SaintDeltora

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#153479: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:37:23 PM

@Journeyman, Trump supporters tend to get banned. Generally because the mods don't tolerate trolls, let alone Stormfront posters.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#153480: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:37:55 PM

[up][up] Oh I'm sure a lot of Trump supporters aren't violent bigots and just didn't know any better. It's just you never know if they are those voters or the neo-nazis.

But thanks for linking that, it did make me feel better.

edited 10th Nov '16 2:39:30 PM by Draghinazzo

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#153481: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:39:15 PM

I'm not talking about the people who just voted for him. I doubt most of those will even defend the bastard except with "We hated Hilary." I'm talking about the ones actually trying to defend the guy's political ideas.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#153482: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:42:05 PM

He can appoint anyone he wants. But the senate actually has to be willing to vote someone in for anything to happen, and right now they're not.
The argument was that there's legal precedent to argue that the Senate has waived that right by refusing to do their jobs.

Here's an article on it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obama-can-appoint-merrick-garland-to-the-supreme-court-if-the-senate-does-nothing/2016/04/08/4a696700-fcf1-11e5-886f-a037dba38301_story.html

Again, I don't know how plausible it is.

edited 10th Nov '16 2:42:28 PM by Pseudopartition

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153483: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:44:11 PM

[up] That's a dangerous road to travel, since Trump can and will use that precedent to bypass the senate if they don't like his nominations.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#153484: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:44:17 PM

Its not. Garland, despite being a qualified moderate, will never be put on the bench.

edited 10th Nov '16 2:44:50 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#153485: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:44:37 PM

If you want my opinion, what you really mean is that you've done a great job insulating yourself in an echo chamber not particularly different from the one Trump's supporters find themselves in. 99% of your time talking politics is better spent interacting with people with whom you disagree.

Yeah, I really want to hang out with the folks who'd call me things like "nigger Jew" and shout down any disagreements with the term "cuck," which is what the alt-right who supports Trump likes to do. Learning how they think is an simple as looking through the comments of any given Youtube video or Internet article.

I don't have trouble debating conservatives or trying to find common ground with them, and I don't believe in not making friends with people because "ideological purity," but these guys are something else. You can't debate in good faith with people like that, and you're braver than me if you're a queer and/or PoC person who'll willingly deal with them in meatspace where they might just get violent with you.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#153486: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:45:42 PM

Some DNC internal disputes at a meeting

WASHINGTON ― On Thursday, Democratic Party officials held their first staff meeting since Hillary Clinton’s stunning loss to Donald Trump in the presidential race. It didn’t go well.

Donna Brazile, the interim leader of the Democratic National Committee, was giving what one attendee described as “a rip-roaring speech” to about 150 employees, about the need to have hope for wins going forward, when a staffer identified only as Zach stood up with a question.

“Why should we trust you as chair to lead us through this?” he asked, according to two people in the room. “You backed a flawed candidate, and your friend [former DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz] plotted through this to support your own gain and yourself.”

Some DNC staffers started to boo and some told him to sit down. Brazile began to answer, but Zach had more to say.

“You are part of the problem,” he continued, blaming Brazile for clearing the path for Trump’s victory by siding with Clinton early on. “You and your friends will die of old age and I’m going to die from climate change. You and your friends let this happen, which is going to cut 40 years off my life expectancy.”

Zach gathered his things and began to walk out. When Brazile called after him, asking where he was going, he told her to go outside and “tell people there” why she should be leading the party.

Two DNC staffers confirmed the exchange.

Asked for comment, Brazile said in an email, “As you can imagine, the individual involved is a member for the staff and I personally do not wish to discuss our internal meetings.”

A DNC spokesman did not respond to a request for comment.

Brazile, a seasoned Democratic strategist, is the DNC’s interim chair until March 2017, when party officials hold a full DNC meeting to elect a new chair. Brazile has been filling in since July, when then-chair Wasserman Schultz stepped down after Wiki Leaks released internal DNC emails showing party officials trying to help Clinton win the Democratic primary.

Brazile ran into her own bit of trouble in October when Wikileaks released emails showing that, in her role as a CNN strategist, she shared questions for CNN-sponsored candidate events in advance with friends on Clinton’s campaign.

Neither of the DNC staffers who spoke to Huff Post knew Zach’s last name, or much about him. They noted that he wasn’t alone in his sentiments. Some in the room nodded as he spoke, they said, and after he left, some talked about him being right on some points (perhaps not his claims about imminent death by climate change).

A third attendee told Huff Post that, despite Zach’s blow-up, there was “overwhelming” support for Brazile in the room. Her motivational words “had some staffers in tears, per this attendee, and Brazile spoke to Zach’s concerns after he left.

“If he had stayed, he would have heard that,” this person said.

Brazile could move to stay on as chair after March, but Thursday’s meeting shows at least some party officials want fresh blood at the top.

“The party is at a crossroads. They have been using the same playbook for decades, and now, they won’t let anyone else come in and change it up,” said one former longtime DNC staffer, who requested anonymity to speak freely. “The fact that Democrats just sat through a devastating defeat and now have to trust the leadership that not only contributed to Clinton’s loss, but the crushing 2014 midterm losses, well, what do they expect?”

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153487: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:49:07 PM

[up][up] Have you considered that your caricature of "the enemy" is every bit as warped as the right's concept of the social justice movement? The range of opinions on the right vary as much as they do on the left and in the center.

edited 10th Nov '16 2:49:40 PM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#153488: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:52:16 PM

So I just finished an interesting conversation with a Republican woman who voted more against Hilary than for Trump.

I'm sure most of you would disagree vehemently with her reasons for that, and I'm going to be looking some things up, but at the very least I got the impression she at least tried to go into this informed without hate. Which is cool.

Still vehemently disagree with the decision, but, it was still civil.

edited 10th Nov '16 2:58:32 PM by LSBK

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#153489: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:52:59 PM

You know, I feel like the people here are a lot smarter than some of the people in charge of the DNC. How exactly can we get our message to them? You know, convince them of how they need to change their message, things they can do like what Pykrete suggested, and so on? I feel like messaging and e-mailing them isn't enough to do the point, we need someone to stand up and go to them. And not one of the more reactionary Tumblr types.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#153490: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:53:10 PM

[up][up][up]I wouldn't say it is a caricature anymore.

I got called a "shill libtard CTR cuck" for pointing out Trump's history with immigration and how he isn't the anti-globalist anti-establishment in the comment section on a Reuters article about immigration. Not by one commenter but several.

I gave up arguing with them because, lets be honest, it is an exercise in futility.

Maybe if you can find a forum like TVT with decent moderation or a stable forum population but open discussions over Trump have been a pissing contest for months.

edited 10th Nov '16 2:53:52 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153491: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:53:36 PM

[up][up][up] Quite. That's probably a much more common position than the hardcore white supremacist.

edited 10th Nov '16 2:54:12 PM by CaptainCapsase

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#153492: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:53:41 PM

Captain: ...how do you know it's a caricature? There is proof of folks doing just that. I myself have talked with trump supporters before. In New York, mind you, so it's own realm, but I've definitely not succeeded at many conversations because there is such a base disagreement. I have spent hours explaining racism to folks only for them to respond "but the blacks..." and say exactly what they did before.

This is not some media-perfect example of "oh well you gosh darned LIBERALS and your SAFE SPACES."

Read my stories!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153493: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:54:41 PM

[up] The SJW caricature that the right envisions also exists in real life; neither that nor the alt-right archetype really represents the bulk of the people voting one way or the other this election.

edited 10th Nov '16 2:55:42 PM by CaptainCapsase

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#153494: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:56:49 PM

Correct, but there's still a difference in power. Minority folks have a LOT more to fear from the stereotypes of the alt-right, than the average person has to fear from an extreme sjw type.

Read my stories!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153495: Nov 10th 2016 at 2:58:10 PM

[up] I would agree that the alt-right is currently a lot more threatening than the "alt-left" if you will by virtue of being much closer to power, but I don't agree with the notion that they aren't dangerous. Case in point that miniature wave of police killings after that big shooting in Dallas.

edited 10th Nov '16 2:59:43 PM by CaptainCapsase

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#153496: Nov 10th 2016 at 3:00:08 PM

There will always be isolated incidents, but the best way I can explain it is what my friend told me, who is jewish.

Her first thought when she sees a swastika, is to fear for her family. It could be a neo-nazi, it could be dumb kids pulling a prank, but her first thought is abject fear that someone is out to get her and her family.

And much like many racial minorities, these fears are not unfounded. Is it so hard to believe that, in our current climate, that minorities might be a tad more historically justified in wanting to avoid the alt-right?

Read my stories!
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#153497: Nov 10th 2016 at 3:00:37 PM

So Nate Cohn was retweeted in my timeline. He covers polling / demographics, and he thinks the reason Hillary lost, is because Obama voters flipped to Trump because of his promises for change.

He points out that the turnouts actually weren't all that different in some states. Uses graphs and news sources to illustrate some areas like Florida and Pennsylvania where there similar turnouts, and 2012 Obama voters could have flipped and voted for Trump

edited 10th Nov '16 3:01:55 PM by xanderiskander

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153498: Nov 10th 2016 at 3:01:22 PM

[up][up] They aren't isolated incidents. The radicalization of the right is much, much further along in my view, but there's potential for the very same thing to happen on the left if the democrats stick their heads in the sand and double down like the GOP did in the wake of 2012.

edited 10th Nov '16 3:01:33 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#153499: Nov 10th 2016 at 3:01:30 PM

Trump's supporters have a history of violence unmatched in recent American political history. There is a precedent to fear them.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Dravencour Since: Mar, 2015
#153500: Nov 10th 2016 at 3:01:52 PM

@153463: I suspect that those of my general family who voted for Trump are generally the same kind of people. Not really fans of Hillary because they think she's corrupt (though to be said, the same can be said of a lot of politicians), but not really fans of Trump either (my mother called Trump "childish"). I don't really like how either candidate was the only choice that we could vote for partywise, when other candidates from the same parties would have been better overall.

edited 10th Nov '16 3:07:01 PM by Dravencour


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