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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#153326: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:18:26 AM

Personally, I voted Gary Johnson knowing he'd lose. I'm from Louisiana. I already knew who'd win the state. And I'm personally fine with Trump winning. The alternative could've been WWIII with Russia and no one would have wanted that. He won fair and square, and us Americans will need to live with the fact that Trump is now the president.

Every time I see this garbage I am going to respond to it and every time, the response will be the same. WWIII with Russia? Did you people miss the Cold War. The USA shot down lots of Soviet planes and vice-versa. There was no WWIII. And yet you think Putin's Russia is going to do what the USSR under Stalin didn't and start WWIII over a plane going down? Hell, you think they even have the ability to do it?

Learn some history.

[up][up]Guess what—most of the people who came to those rallies couldn't even be bothered to vote for him in the primary. And that is where the narrative that he could have won the general falls apart. "He had a movement" behind him means nothing, when it's a movement of people who won't even help him get the party's nomination.

edited 10th Nov '16 11:21:41 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#153327: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:23:10 AM

Guess what. many of them couldn't, because in many states people's party affiliations were switched, and they were either told to go away or were given provisional ballots

edited 10th Nov '16 11:23:26 AM by xanderiskander

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#153328: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:26:21 AM

Guess what—most of the people who came to those rallies couldn't even be bothered to vote for him in the primary. And that is where the narrative that he could have won the general falls apart. "He had a movement" behind him means nothing, when it's a movement of people who won't even help him get the party's nomination.

Again a lot a big chunk of Bernie's strength was in independent voters who couldn't vote for him in large number of the states' primaries.

And he still gave her a good run and she mostly won because she beat him in the southern states which turned out to be a useless strength for her in the general election since she could've even take one southern state apart from maybe Virginia with a Virginian governor as her VP and only barely.

She still lost Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania which are largely white states that Bernie does best in.

edited 10th Nov '16 11:26:58 AM by MadSkillz

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#153329: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:30:48 AM

The big issue ultimately had nothing to do with Trump’s rallying. Trump actually underperformed both John Mc Cain and Mitt Romney. The real problem was apathy among Democrats.

2000

  • Al Gore: 51M votes
  • George W. Bush: 50.5M votes

2004

  • John Kerry: 59M votes
  • George W. Bush: 62M votes

2008

  • Barack Obama: 69.5M votes.
  • John Mc Cain: 59.9M votes

2012

  • Barack Obama: 65.9M votes.
  • Mitt Romney: 60.9M votes.

2016

  • Hillary Clinton: 60.1M votes.
  • Donald Trump: 59.8M votes.

The electoral college was also an issue as Hillary did win the popular vote, but she also didn’t quite capture the enthusiasm of the crowd the way Obama had. Trump ultimately didn’t do anything special. Compared to his peers, he actually received fewer votes than any GOP candidate has received since 9/11 instigated a surge of eager voters.

But Democrats just didn’t turn out for Hillary the way they needed to. Too many of us said, “F*ck it,” because Sanders didn’t win, or “F*ck it,” because they didn’t think Hillary was inspirational enough, or “F*ck it,” because they bought into the Cult of Moderation.

And too many voted for Gary Johnson. He won only 3% of the vote, but that 3% crippled Hillary’s numbers. Many of the states she’d lost could have been won had Gary Johnson’s voters gone for her.

The Republicans didn’t win this one through any kind of clever ploy or genius tactic. We lost it for ourselves. Hillary didn’t let us down. We let her down and Trump is the price we pay for that.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#153330: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:32:50 AM

If you can't get off your ass and switch from Independent to Democrat in time for the election I have no sympathy for you. They had months and months to do it and chose not to, or to put it off until the last moment.

You don't change things or elect a candidate by screaming on Facebook or attending rallies. You do it by making sure you can vote for him. These people chose not to do that. They chose to make zero effort. And yet you think they would have turned out in sufficient numbers to make him win the election?

We are talking about people who switched to voting for Gary Johnson because they thought getting high mattered more than any of the hundreds of policy differences between he and Sanders. People who rail about how Trump won't be so bad because he'll "bring the revolution".

edited 10th Nov '16 11:34:22 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#153331: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:33:02 AM

I don't think Gary Johnson voters would have voted Democratic anyway. A lot of them were just Republicans who didn't like Trump.

[up]Many of them did switch to democrat, but when they went to the polls the people there said they weren't and couldn't vote. A lot of people were reporting that to the Sanders Campaign. Some even reported they were switched to Republican instead of democrat.

edited 10th Nov '16 11:35:26 AM by xanderiskander

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#153332: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:34:49 AM

[up]A lot of them were PU Brigaders pitching a hissy fit too.

EDIT: And that's bull. Most of those whining about disenfranchisement were people who had never bothered to make the switch in the first place, because they couldn't be asked to.

edited 10th Nov '16 11:35:37 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#153333: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:36:57 AM

edited 11th Dec '16 8:42:55 PM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#153334: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:37:04 AM

Personally I find it more than a little bizarre that so many Democrat supporters seem to be far more terrified of supporting perceived socialism than they are of calling someone else a misogynist/racist/whatever -ist. So you don't want to push for liberal values a little closer towards modern Europe because it would alienate conservatives, but calling them bigots is fine? Seems like there's some doublethink going on there.

I don't think Cold War fears are more relevant to today's political landscape than the cultural and ideological divides between men and women, Christians and nonChristians, white people and black people right here in the country. Who cares if prominent Republicans call someone a socialist? Did it hurt Obama's voter base enthusiasm any when people called him a Muslim?

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#153335: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:37:33 AM

If you can't get off your ass and switch from Independent to Democrat in time for the election I have no sympathy for you. They had months and months to do it and chose not to, or to put it off until the last moment. You don't change things or elect a candidate by screaming on Facebook or attending rallies. You do it by making sure you can vote for him. These people chose not to do that. They chose to make zero effort. And yet you think they would have turned out in sufficient numbers to make him win the election?

A lot of people don't follow the primaries and sometimes a candidate doesn't grab you at first or s/he doesn't grab you hard enough to switch until later and by then it might've been too late. There's a variety of good reasons why one doesn't switch.

Anyways here's the primary map supporting my point. Bernie beat Hillary in Michigan,Wisconsin New Hampshire and Maine. He did lose Pennsylvania to her but that was in a closed primary.

edited 10th Nov '16 11:38:41 AM by MadSkillz

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#153336: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:40:36 AM

Hold on, time out! American voters need to have registered their party affiliation prior to Election Day? What the hell is that for?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#153337: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:41:56 AM

[up]They're talking about being registered for a specific party to participiate in closed primaries. Not necessary for the general election.

edited 10th Nov '16 11:44:25 AM by xanderiskander

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#153338: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:42:26 AM

[up][up]They can mark "Independent" as well.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#153340: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:44:36 AM

I feel like this election was a Heel Realization for me. I knew that racism was alive in America, but I always thought it was a small group of people insulated in their beliefs. In my moderation I was keeping a blind eye to how evil the conservatives are, and the sheer extent of their bigotry. I will never vote Right on any issue ever again, even if the Left option is purely destructive. I can deal with the fallout of that.
Welcome to the "spite voters" club, I guess.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#153341: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:45:14 AM

I've been reading a lot of the 'Day 1' examples of abuse that's being inflicted on people (minorities, women, sexual orientation, religion, etc.) and thinking.

This is a lot like the immediate aftermath of Brexit where these people felt their awful views were now 'mainstream'. Our statistics have shown that hate crimes have shot up some 60% or so in the months after. However, almost immediately after this abuse started coming out, a protest against this kind of behaviour began trending on Social Media under a specific tag - people doing kind things and offering support as a way of protesting against this behaviour.

It's not much, but I think, if Americans aren't already doing something like this, they need to. Clinton's concession speech mentioned something about 'representing the best of America', so I think that's what you guys need to do. Get a #bestofamerica reaction (or something) trending on Social Media in response to all of this - it won't be anything but a small start, but at least it's a start.

edited 10th Nov '16 11:47:32 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#153342: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:45:46 AM

Edited out because I'm acting like an asshole. Sorry.

edited 10th Nov '16 11:48:16 AM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#153343: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:45:54 AM

[up][up][up][up]Open primaries run the risk of strategic voting by those in the other party voting for the candidate they perceive as an easier target in the general.

[up]I don't think that was supposed to be a compliment.

edited 10th Nov '16 11:47:11 AM by megarockman

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#153344: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:46:03 AM

Closed primaries only let people registered in that party vote on those primaries. Semi closed primaries will let you into vote in one of the primaries if you're not registered with a primary.

And it differs from state to state so it's really confusing. But what party you're registered with has nothing to do with the general.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#153345: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:47:20 AM

[up][up][up]It was more pointing out the sad irony. But oh well.

edited 10th Nov '16 11:47:43 AM by nervmeister

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#153346: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:47:56 AM

It's a state by state thing, actually. In West Virginia this year Independents were allowed to choose their ballot, and they could vote for either party. I know, I'm registered Independent and I was allowed to vote the Democratic ballot. I went Sanders.

On the one hand, I don't like the thought of the capitol having absolute control and cutting out the states, but there's some instances where I'd like to say, "Fuck States' Rights! Some things should only be done ONE way." This would be one of them. The ballots shouldn't be party exclusive to begin with.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#153347: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:50:13 AM

Trudeau Tells Trump He’s Ready to Renegotiate NAFTA

Well, Donald Trump did vow to rip up trade deals. It may be starting even before his inauguration.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said today that he is willing to reopen NAFTA, noting that “it’s important that we be open to talking about trade deals.” And in a conference call with reporters on Wednesday, David Mac Naughton, Canada’s ambassador to Washington, said, “We’re ready to come to the table.”

As president, Trump will have executive authority to remove the United States from any trade deal. NAFTA has been in effect since January 1994 — and Trump has railed against it almost as long, saying he would renegotiate it or withdraw from it altogether. Trump, who, over the course of the campaign, called NAFTA “an absolute catastrophe” and “a total disaster,” stated his opposition to it in 1993 because “the Mexicans want it, and that doesn’t sound good.”

In 2015, U.S.-Canada trade came to about $660 billion, a two-way exchange that could be upended by a re-opened NAFTA, though neither the Canadian government nor Trump has specified what, exactly, is up for discussion. But then, Canada has never been the controversial member of NAFTA. According to the Congressional Research Service, from 1993 to 2014, exports from Canada doubled; imports from Mexico, by comparison, jumped 251 percent. And it’s against Mexico, not Canada, that Trump has specifically threatened double-digit tariffs (in his presidential announcement speech, he said he would put a 35 percent tariff on automotive parts that came from a hypothetical factory in Mexico).

Still, renegotiating trade deals is not the same as tearing them up. And there’s plenty of anti-trade feeling among Trump supporters (as there was among supporters of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders). Half of the electorate in Michigan think trade is bad for jobs, and 47 percent of Ohio voters this trade is bad for workers. Time will tell if Trudeau’s pre-emptive gesture will be enough to satisfy them that Trump has their back.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#153348: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:53:32 AM

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#153350: Nov 10th 2016 at 11:56:35 AM

RE Sanders: someone posted here an article that was "I've done some opposition research on Sanders, and he'd have been crushed" because there was ground for a lot of bad narratives to be stuck on him.

You know, after "grab them by the pussy" I believe that what I've bolded is bullshit.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV

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