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CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#153126: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:18:26 AM

"That's what helped lead to this mess to begin with."

What? Because we have the decency to repudiate bigotry wherever and whenever we see it?

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#153127: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:18:54 AM

I think his point was "box them into a corner they end up lashing out".

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#153128: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:19:03 AM

Blue Cross claims they're losing the most money on people who are applying for insurance for just a month, getting their expensive procedures, then just dropping coverage after that.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#153129: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:20:16 AM

They can spend their entire campaigns demonizing blacks, muslims, latinos, LGBTQ people...

When there's Islamic terrorism? We have to talk about problems with the culture. When black people commit crimes, it's about the 'culture in the inner cities.' But when white people behave badly, all of a sudden it's ALL about economics.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#153130: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:20:21 AM

So require contracts, then.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#153131: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:20:41 AM

Treating them as just frustrated underdogs with no weight is what led to this situation.

They took the platform white males are the most oppressed group here guys! and ran wild with it.

edited 10th Nov '16 7:22:47 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Raddishes Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#153132: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:22:34 AM

Judging from all Trump is going to do... Is he even thinking before he acts? His campaign is 'focusing' on America, but his actions will negatively impact the entire world.

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#153133: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:22:54 AM

To be honest I've moved on now. I don't hate Trump as a person (even though I think he's entirely unsuited to be President). My main beef with him is his policies, and how those policies will shape American society.

I've already read multiple anecdotes of people that have been harassed by Trump supporters. If he doesn't rein them in, that is going to be the way America works for the next four years. And if he doesn't, it's up to us to make a big enough fuss to make them sit up and take notice.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#153134: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:24:40 AM

Then they needed to be oppressed harder. Oppression works eventually, but you have to take the boot, put it to their necks, and PRESS. Decent folk weren't hard enough on the deplorables. That needed to change starting yesterday.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#153135: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:24:48 AM

[up][up][up]as long AMERICA and more important, himself is good he dosent even care about others, is their fault...somehow

edited 10th Nov '16 7:24:59 AM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#153136: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:25:33 AM

Oh, I do loathe him. What we have seen from Trump is a lifetime of cruelty, predatory behavior. Of bullying, and taking advantage of others and doing harm to those beneath him.

And it all paid off.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#153137: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:26:35 AM

From the ACLU:

President-elect Trump, as you assume the nation’s highest office, we urge you to reconsider and change course on certain campaign promises you have made. These include your plan to amass a deportation force to remove 11 million undocumented immigrants; ban the entry of Muslims into our country and aggressively surveil them; punish women for accessing abortion; reauthorize waterboarding and other forms of torture; and change our nation’s libel laws and restrict freedom of expression.

These proposals are not simply un-American and wrong-headed, they are unlawful and unconstitutional. They violate the First, Fourth, Fifth, Eighth, and 14th Amendments. If you do not reverse course and instead endeavor to make these campaign promises a reality, you will have to contend with the full firepower of the ACLU at every step. Our staff of litigators and activists in every state, thousands of volunteers and millions of card-carrying members and supporters are ready to fight against any encroachment on our cherished freedoms and rights.

One thing is certain: We will be eternally vigilant every single day of your presidency. And when you leave the Oval Office, we will do the same with your successor as we have done throughout our nearly 100 years of existence. The Constitution and the rule of law are stronger than any one person, and we will see to that. We will never waver.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#153138: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:28:15 AM

No, Ace Of Spades, I don't believe status quos are just going to magically shift because of the executive office, I believe the executive office has already given us one opportunity to shift towards secularism, and yes, I think having empowered religious fanatics like Pence is a big part of that. We've already seen accusation of Muslim thrown around as if it was a crime for eight years and now we've seen a Presidential nominee insult what he presumed to be Muslims based on what he believed about their faith and promise double standards for Muslim immigrants.

See, religion used to be something it was considered taboo to criticize in this country. At most you could call attention to extremism and fundamentalism, but you know, but to suggest faith in of itself might be a problem was frowned on. It's what's allowed religiously motivated politicians to pursue to just office but religiously motivated policy while in office. I'm not to thrilled that they're now attacking a religious group, one that's fairly difficult to convince people to leave over apostasy and honor taboos, regardless, it opens the door for discussion about apostasy and honor taboos the more it goes on. It's our job to shift that discussion from perception and stereotypes to dogma and canon, our job to shift it from people, most of whom did not make fully informed choices in the same way a child did not make such about their first pair of socks, to the ideology itself.

It's more work, if finding people willing to hear you out, to get them to acknowledge the similarities in the ideology of a Mike Pence, and more importantly, the similar problems with it. A summary of them being if you believe in a government built on the ideals of basic human equality and thus, right to individual liberty, if you believe in the strength of "multiculturalism", then allowing policies based on proselytizing religions based on their inherent superiority, exclusive correctness and unchangeable doctrine, religions based on spreading by suppressing cultures antithetical to it, is in fact antithetical to a government based on individual liberty. It is antithetical to a multicultural society, which in our current state is pretty much a myth itself. People don't want multiculturalism right now, they want domination, and no, I don't think Donald Trump's election has magically changed that, but it's created a great opportunity, and I expect men like Mike Pence, empowered by the election, will continue to create opportunities to teach these things to people who previously would not be willing to engage in such conversation.

Because to suggest that faith could be a problem was a taboo itself, but over the last eight, perhaps sixteen years, we have been wrestling with the idea that a specific group of faithful were a problem, an inherent problem. Not the idea that these faithful were bringing operating in government with intent on changing laws and implementing policy, that they were going to oppress those different from them with government as justification, that they were going to aggressively convert the population through subtle government assistance, that they were going to recruit from the criminal elements of society who would assist in their path to adding more of their number to government, that they were going to partner with monopolistic corporations to fund their agendas, none of that. We pushed the idea that the mere fact someone could be a Muslim was a problem. Not even that someone definitely was, that they could be.

That people doing such are now in office does not magically discredit the taboo of suggesting faith in of itself can be a problem, but it create more opportunity to talk with people now suspicious of Muslims, to get on their good sides by appearing to agree with them while shifting the conversation away from people to the contents of religious canon itself they may not like, and then hopefully how it's not so different from Christianity's. It creates opportunity to make one realize that there are other people like the Muslims they are suspicious of, and these people have been trying to oppress those different from them, aggressively attempting to convert the population with subtle aid from government, demanding the strict adherence to doctrine from every available outlet, recruiting from criminal organizations in a bid to increase their numbers in government, partnering with monopolistic corporations to help fund their agenda, as admittedly is all their right to do away from government affairs, and trying to implement their agenda in our merit based, equality based government, which is explicitly not their right as written in our constitution. Furthermore, with Trump Pence you can now identify a couple who have the endorsements of multiple traditional terrorists organizations. Terrorists organizations have been the anti Muslim fear mongering tactic but the organizations who have committed acts of terror primarily on this nation's soil rather than across the ocean have endorsed Christians who mean to subvert government.

You see how long this post is? It's more work trying to talk this out with people. It can take days, weeks, months, to reach a single person, years before they become anything other than idle bystander to your cause, but Trump Pence has created the opportunity to reach more people.

Now about academic freedom. It's not directly related to the religious right's infiltration of government and the challenge of communicating why it's a bad thing to a person. The connection is just that progress on the issue is another opportunity the current and possible future political atmosphere has provided. And let's get one thing out of the way; academic freedom is as much about free speech, that teachers can be allowed to share their opinions without fear for their jobs, as it is that students will not be agents of agendas unrelated to their education. Why syllabi matter in this case is that the very existence of a "class" which admits any other goal before education, unless it's something purely physical like conditioning(and even then, teaching students how to better go about it would be desirable), is against that very principle and doesn't belong in a public institution for education. If they want a club or something, fine, but clubs don't have syllabi.

Now maybe you haven't read Indoctrination U: the Left's war against academic freedom. It or something similar was practically required reading during your first or second year at my school, which was a very liberal campus with mock Karl Marx speeches, activists guest speakers, stock brokers(took pretty much all types). Maybe you have read and dismissed it as an unjustified right wing attack, even though it's by a former liberal who became conservative out of his frustration with the issue. Maybe you've missed the Fiamengo Files, online updates from a liberal professor trying to call attention to the issue or dismissed that too, but you can't deny Steven Salida, who was passed over for a job just because of his beliefs. I care more about students who are looking to get jobs more than instructors who already have them, so I focus on indoctrination and proselytizing but that is a case where reigning in the liberal abuses would have helped a teacher.

And of course some of the most problematic opponents of the cause are "conservatives", such as The Appalachian Bible College in West Virginia, a private school that shouldn't even be worried about whether or not anyone stops the indoctrinating of students in public schools but nonetheless feels the need to interject and disrupt reform efforts even from neocons like Horowitz. Maybe that does put me in the same boat as conservative conspiracy theorists but why would someone with no stake feel the need to obstruct? Why would a professor going into Indian studies be rejected for views on Israel, which shouldn't be dwelt on in the classroom if, you know, the teachers are actually expected to teach a given subject? Because when I was a student I didn't agree with the assertion it was a widespread problem either. I went to a liberal school and it wasn't a big issue on our campus as I could tell. But seeing the opposition made me think again about how widespread it is, as if there would be little opposition if everyone was doing what they were supposed to. Why that ties into the previous point about religion in public discourse is that the problematic opposition are not the so called social justice warriors. I'm not worried about them. They don't need help from the classroom and won't be hindered by it either. The phrase SJW isn't really even in my vocabulary and wasn't brought up by me, I, for some reason, have to explain that I don't really care about it two posts in a row. What bothers me is that I've found much of the opposition to get things done, to act against mostly liberal perpetrators, is motivated by fears about Bibles and Israel, fears unfortunately stoked by what should be our biggest allies allies in uniting people across the political spectrum. But if people become less knee jerk in their defenses of religion, more open to the idea that it can be a problem in certain contexts, that it has no place in certain contexts, then we won't have to worry about getting men like Horowitz to keep quiet about stances unrelated to the issue(and yes, I realize the irony in that statement) because people will just ignore him and stick to the issue. Once they see and hear serious discussion on the tenants of Islam itself, see and hear serious effort to keep Christian agenda out of government founded on the separation of church and state, the rants of a Horowitz won't be so shocking, people will have become desensitized to it.

It's not something I expect to be magically fixed by the republican domination of the federal government. No, I expect this to be a fairly long game. But we've got them in the executive branch for at least four years and won't have a congress that's not going to be getting anything done environmentally or socially, nothing I'm interested in anyway, for another two years. So I'm willing to dedicate at least a few years to it, just like I was willing to donate time and dollars to the politicians I usually give little but contempt in an effort to stop a republican party which nominated Donald Trump as it's candidate for president.

I failed in that particularly endeavor, besides maybe the consolation of a for some reason yet to be confirmed popular vote and a senate seat or two but we got a quite a bit done under Barack Obama. Conservation, investigation, blocks and approvals, it took a lot of time, and some money, but he presented us with a much opportunity. Trump not as much, not directly, certainly not intentionally, has presented us with some opportunities all the same. Don't know what you libs will be doing but I'm taking those opportunities.

Buldogue's lawyer
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#153139: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:28:25 AM

re: ppl getting mad with cutting funding to FEMA etc.

Most people won't link the fund cutting to the service not being there. They'll just get angry at the *government* for not being there when they need help and not realize that the government services isn't there because their representative cut the funding for it.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#153140: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:29:15 AM

So... these anti-Trump protests. I totally understand why one would be upset at the outcome of this election, and I get it's about sending a message, but what practical good are they gonna do? Hillary has already conceded. She's done. She's not going to magically take power if enough people protest. And really, that would be massive ammo for the "the election is rigged!" folks.

edited 10th Nov '16 7:31:54 AM by speedyboris

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#153141: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:29:33 AM

While I'm as concerned as the rest of you, pat of me still thinks that Trump was telling the people what they wanted to hear. There's go guarantee that he'll actually go through with everything he said he'd do, either because he's a hack with no conviction or because of the sheer logistics of it all. And if Pence is really the one running things, well, that's still not as bad as Trump.

edited 10th Nov '16 7:30:30 AM by kkhohoho

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#153142: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:33:54 AM

So I had a funny thought last night. You know what would be the most absurd end to this ridiculous campaign? If Trump allowed himself to be sworn in and resigned the very next day.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#153143: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:34:40 AM

The protests, I think, are more of a display of power than anything. It's people telling Trump and his supporters they are not taking this lying down.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#153144: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:35:05 AM

The point of the protests is to show that the voting majority will not go gentle into the night, but rather rage at the dying of the light.

There needs to be a machine of righteous fury bellowing at that orange blowhard every hour of every day. He should get neither peace nor rest.

First, we need to drum POTUS and Real Donald Trump off of twitter with a targeted harassment campaign. He will no longer have his harassment pulpit, drown him out with louder, angrier internet bullying.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#153145: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:35:13 AM

Trump has an ego the size of Jupiter that's pathetically easy to injure. A really obvious part of the reason he ran for President is because he wants to be important and he wants to be loved as a celebrity. But when his announcement as president is immediately followed by people picketing Trump Tower...that kind of ruins it for him. He gets in, and most of the people he sees in public hate him. He got booed going into and out of the voting place. Washington D.C. Hates him even more than New York, by all accounts. He'll be surrounded by people who despise him for his whole presidency.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#153146: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:35:29 AM

I think it's rare for a leader to go through with all of his promises. It might be easier for Trump to get things done since the Reps control the entire government atm, but not everything he's promised is really all that feasible to do.

The wall, the mass deportations, etc if done are going to be enormous wastes of time and money. And it's been predicted that his economic policies (vague as they are) are likely to send us into a recession.

The protests, I think, are more of a display of power than anything. It's people telling Trump and his supporters they are not taking this lying down.

Basically. It's about sending Trump a middle finger and showing the dark part of America and the rest of the world that they are not like Trump and they will not accept him.

edited 10th Nov '16 7:36:55 AM by Draghinazzo

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#153147: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:37:11 AM

Anti-Trump protests: It's more a very public demonstration that the protestors do not agree with his policies. Hopefully that energy gets transferred into intersectional movements to resist the GOP's encroachment on civil rights as soon as possible.

FEMA defunding: If the past 2 days have taught me something, if Americans say they would rather die in a fire than live under the jackboot of the "New World Order", they probably are being literal about it.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#153148: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:37:11 AM

[up][up]@ Reccession: Again, assuming he goes through with his economic policies. Either he doesn't because he breaks his promise, or he doesn't because Pence is in charge and says 'Fuck that.'

edited 10th Nov '16 7:37:37 AM by kkhohoho

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#153149: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:38:31 AM

Oddly enough, I thought Trump was a complete asshole before the campaign started, whether it was his pushing the Birther conspiracy or the grandiose presentation he always had on "The Apprentice". This campaign just proved that he's a caricature of the Corrupt Corporate Executive come to life.

Also, have a joke courtesy of a Youtube comment on Watch Mojo's Top 5 Trump Wins the White House facts video.

"Now that Trump is Barack's replacement, does that mean Orange is the new Black?"

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#153150: Nov 10th 2016 at 7:38:44 AM

Yeah, it's more people letting Trump know they don't approve. You didn't see people protesting the fact that Obama won against Mc Cain and Romney.

America's history has prepared us for this moment. The ACLU will be watching Trump, the Supreme Court can keep Congress in line if they want to pass anything unconstitutional, and there's more Americans that don't approve of him than there are of people that do, even if they voted for him for stuff that wasn't focused on racism.

People will be speaking out against him if he does anything untoward.

edited 10th Nov '16 7:39:45 AM by theLibrarian


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