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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152976: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:29:49 PM

[up][up] Sanders did unexpectedly well in the midwest (which is what lost Clinton the election), but if not him than probably Biden.

edited 9th Nov '16 8:30:08 PM by CaptainCapsase

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#152977: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:32:12 PM

I think a lot of people just didn't run for the Democratic primaries coz Clinton was running. They also have a fairly serious problem of lacking younger talents.

edited 9th Nov '16 8:32:52 PM by nightwyrm_zero

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#152978: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:33:48 PM

[up] Trump is in his 70's. I don't think they care about the age of their electorates.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#152979: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:35:48 PM

I do think Biden was probably the best bet of a Democrat victory. It's such a shame his son passed away right at this moment, which left him too traumatized to run.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#152980: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:35:49 PM

Not in that sense, but I think more in the sense of cultivating new and fresh perspectives and talents for the democratic party.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#152981: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:37:47 PM

The Atlantic has some reader responses to the economics vs. racism argument from earlier, and this article raises a very salient point:

In general, conservatives prefer cultural to materialist analyses of human behavior. For years, for instance, conservatives have insisted that economic distress does not cause jihadist terror. The real source, they insist, is Islamic culture. For decades, they’ve argued that economic distress does not cause unwed pregnancy and drug addiction among African Americans. The real explanation lies with inner city black culture. Given those precedents, you would think conservatives would embrace a cultural rather than economic explanation for Trump’s appeal, especially when the evidence points so strongly in that direction. But when it’s whites acting badly, not blacks or Muslims, suddenly economic distress matters a great deal.

An anthropology professor I had once made this very clear: Culture-ism is the "new" racism.

edited 9th Nov '16 8:38:02 PM by Eschaton

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#152982: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:38:09 PM

[up]x4 Should have said "up-and-coming" instead of "younger"

edited 9th Nov '16 8:40:18 PM by nightwyrm_zero

garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#152983: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:42:37 PM

Trump treated women like meat his entire campaign. Romney was somewhere between vaguely neutral and vaguely nice to women during his campaign. Trump got more female support than Romney.

Feminism is ...

Secretely unpopular but very noisy? Dead? Hated as much as the rest of the social justice movement? Useless at uniting women? Doing fine, Hillary Clinton was just the worst candidate in history and that obscured everything?

I honestly have no idea.

edited 9th Nov '16 8:45:08 PM by garridob

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#152984: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:43:32 PM

Everyone talks about Latinos and Blacks being targeted, but what about Asian-Americans? Trump hasn't said anything about them.

A lot of older Asian-Americans probably voted for Trump. They tend to hold a lot of conservative ideas about being self-made and self-sufficient (it's not just a joke that Asian parents pressure their kids to get straight A's and become doctors) and, to be frank, are just as racist towards other minorities as white people can be.

Source: My family.

Mr.Didact Keep Hope Alive from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Naked on a bearskin rug, playing the saxophone
Keep Hope Alive
#152985: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:46:01 PM

[up] I can attest to the general veracity of this.

Stand Fast, Stand Strong, Stand Together
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#152986: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:46:15 PM

[up][up][up] I mentioned that earlier myself.

I think that this election shows that our social activism has a big problem: taking it for granted that most minority people know how bad they have it. Obviously many of them don't, or care enough about other things that they're willing to let it slide. This will have to an enormous concern going forward.

About the movement as a whole, I'm not a woman so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure feminism was very slowly gaining traction, among liberals and artists especially, but still had a very long ways to go. It's not dead but has taken an enormous blow that will likely take a long time to recover from.

edited 9th Nov '16 8:51:10 PM by Draghinazzo

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#152987: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:46:54 PM

Well of course, they live in one of the most homogenous areas of the world to the point where they called anyone that didn't look like them "foreign devils." I'm not surprised, to be honest.

Anyway, to my great-unsurprise people are still attacking the Obamas because they're renting a nice house that's still in the DC area to live in once January rolls around.

I swear, the sheer number of people wanting him in Gitmo for some reason and other sorts of garbage makes me sick.

edited 9th Nov '16 8:51:34 PM by theLibrarian

garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#152988: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:47:04 PM

[up]There's a lot of evidence that "white" just means "made it" in America. Since Asian Americans are generally successful, they probably identify more with the "white" label than others.

The Asians I know living in Asia certainly identify much more with whites than blacks or hispanics.

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152989: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:47:16 PM

@Clarste: That's also true of a big chunk of mine though at least Trump wasn't their first choice.

@Librarian: East Asia is no more homogenous than Europe

edited 9th Nov '16 8:49:42 PM by CaptainCapsase

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#152990: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:49:02 PM

Re: Trump and women

A major aspect about Pussygate is that it seemed to drastically affect the positions of younger women who were adolescents starting in The '80s.

Meanwhile, older women seemed to possess major Values Dissonance regarding what was considered male banter and cat-calling. Last week I overhead an elderly sixty-looking lady remarking how the Billy Bush tape was only, "an old crone just trying to show off his golden years to a younger man."

edited 9th Nov '16 8:50:03 PM by FluffyMcChicken

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#152991: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:52:40 PM

[up]That's not particularly a surprise to me, considering how conversations regarding what is consent tend to go and who has them.

I mean, values dissonance is a thing specifically because people choose new values that oppose what came before.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#152992: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:52:52 PM

Also, I'm not an expert but I already mentioned that yes, Clinton specifically being the candidate probably resulted in a lower turnout than we might have had otherwise since a lot of people found it extremely difficult to muster up enthusiasm for her. She barely got 50% of the white woman vote, let that sink in for a moment.

And even with that most reports are saying she won the popular vote if just barely, so imagine how much better that might have been with a candidate that wasn't as deeply unpopular.

edited 9th Nov '16 8:54:13 PM by Draghinazzo

dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#152993: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:56:07 PM

And Clinton doesn't really have that much charisma, not much to actively encourage people to vote for her, not merely against Trump. Heck, her slogan focused on her, not on America.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#152994: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:57:54 PM

I think this election has also taught us that we shouldn't underestimate the power of emotion and personal charisma. Those are, unfortunately, probably going to be quite important for the democrats for a potential 2020 nominee.

Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#152995: Nov 9th 2016 at 9:04:28 PM

Thirding the fact that a lot of older Asian-Americans have SO MUCH Internalized Categorism and also glorify white/Caucasian society. Apparently Filipino-Americans were the main subgroup who voted for Trump.

It crushed my heart just when I was starting to re-inflate it with anger, but it didn't really surprise me.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#152996: Nov 9th 2016 at 9:13:49 PM

There's also the amount of crazy old folks who remember the Communist years in China and are convinced the Democrats want to make that happen in the US too. My Russian coworkers are all Trumpists too, and they also say it's because they're convinced Hillary is going to be the next Stalin, though I wonder if lingering nationalism and Putin love has anything to do with it among some of the younger ones.

dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#152997: Nov 9th 2016 at 9:15:13 PM

Yep, nationalism and xenophobia is definitely a major thing this year. Helped passed Brexit and now it helped make Trump president.

Oh, and also people protest voting, because they didn't like the status quo.

edited 9th Nov '16 9:21:29 PM by dysphere

Zennistrad from The Multiverse Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#152998: Nov 9th 2016 at 9:21:42 PM

I think of the major reasons why Democrats failed to capture moderates outside of their own loyal party members is that they tried to defeat nationalism with their own personal brand of nationalism.

This is a mistake, because nobody can out-nationalist the modern GOP.

edited 9th Nov '16 9:22:16 PM by Zennistrad

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#152999: Nov 9th 2016 at 9:25:07 PM

At this point, I think people would rather accept the reason Trump won being that Weird Al somehow opened up a Hell Gate with the power of B minor. tongue

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#153000: Nov 9th 2016 at 9:27:31 PM

I feel like pointing out that Nate Silver says Hillary would've won if she'd gotten 1% more of the vote. And by similar margins to what Trump has now.

Talking about what the Democrats did wrong is of limited value if it fails to acknowledge that this was a really close election.


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