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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

MysteryMan23 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#152876: Nov 9th 2016 at 5:57:14 PM

@Alley Oop: Hey! You said what I was going to say! [nja]

Still true, though. Let's face it, this scheme is a bad idea, whether it works or not. And it smells of "less painful route that actually causes more trouble" to me.

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#152877: Nov 9th 2016 at 5:57:46 PM

At this point I have zero faith in anything resembling principles when it comes to the Republicans aiding Trump. They'd only get rid of him if he became a PR liability in office.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#152878: Nov 9th 2016 at 5:58:12 PM

[up][up][up]It's still the kind of scandal that never washes off. And it would make him, as [up] says, a PR liability in office.

And, if it comes to impeachment, Pence will face the legitimacy issues inherent with being an unelected president.

edited 9th Nov '16 6:00:11 PM by Gilphon

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#152879: Nov 9th 2016 at 5:59:11 PM

They'd only get rid of him if he became a PR liability in office.

I want to say this is likely but then I just realized he had all the bad PR you could want during the campaign and he still got elected.

I just don't know anymore gents.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#152880: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:01:44 PM

Hoping for an EC revolt is a bad idea that would create a bad start to Clinton's presidency and also be a weapon to use against the Democrats in the future. The way the system works is that if it can be used against one party, it can be used again later against the other party.

So yeah, as frustrating as this is, let's not hope for an elector's revolt. (Not that we here personally can go and change those guy's minds, but still.)

[up][up]Eeeeh, VP is still on the ballot, so he was, in fact, voted for. Regardless of whatever people say about only paying attention to the top of the ticket.

edited 9th Nov '16 6:02:51 PM by AceofSpades

Jasaiga Since: Jan, 2015
#152881: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:02:15 PM

Serious question: is it now a near 100% certainty that America is now permanently divided by partisanship and racial politics?

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#152882: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:02:45 PM

The difference after Jan 20 is that now he's actually in the office and those who voted for him less out of bigotry and more out of desperation are going to expect him (or his string-pullers) to actually help them. They may or may not deliver (we here seem to be assuming the latter, but it's really the ones who voted him in who are going to have these expectations to meet).

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#152883: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:03:41 PM

Yes, maybe it will be solved by generational shifts but last night's events may have caused permanent gulfs.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#152884: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:04:22 PM

Jasaiga, America has always been divided. That's what happens when people have differing ideas on how things ought to be run, regardless of all other factors. The part where we get unity is that we're usually taught to have respect for the democratic process wherein folks do their best to convince us that their idea is best. This apparent division is not the end of the country, it has always been a feature. The racism is not new, it never went away. The ideas regarding what government should do have always differed. The city/urban divide has always been there.

Like, seriously, this doomsaying isn't actually predicting anything new.

edited 9th Nov '16 6:05:51 PM by AceofSpades

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#152885: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:06:01 PM

I'm not so sure about "permanently", though the chasm has widened a good deal. Thing about big tent parties in general is that coalitions have changed over time - like, 50 years ago the southern racists were pretty much Democrats.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#152887: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:07:59 PM

It might be possible to ameliorate these issues with time, and in some ways we have but it's going to be super hard.

A lot of white people have come around to the fact that screwing over minorities is wrong and have begun to understand the full depth of oppression that has been dealt to people who aren't white. Same goes for people who aren't straight. There's just not enough of them and a lot of minorities apparently don't care that they're being screwed over either given the circumstances.

Raising awareness of these issues is only going to be even more of an uphill battle because complacency and bigotry have essentially been validated but we have to keep fighting despite the enormous setback even if it's just to guarantee a more tolerant future beyond our lifetime.

Because this racism and bigotry is actually quite old. Racism in general has been around for millenia but the particular branch of institutional racism and white supremacy dates back to at least 500-600 years ago. It never went away, only pushed back, and too many people were blind to it.

edited 9th Nov '16 6:11:17 PM by Draghinazzo

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#152888: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:21:23 PM

The Dems will have a chance to pick up the faltering-rural-middle-class once Trump is officially president, folks voted for change and they're not gonna get it, that may drive them towards the Dems.

As for a silver lining, we're officially not in charge anymore, all the bad shit that happens is officially not our fault, so that's something.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#152889: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:21:23 PM

[up][up] Well it's going to be a real fucking hard time hiding it now. We're through the rabbit hole now, folks. Everything everyone on all sides has been fighting for, both secretly and not-so-secretly, is out in the open now for all to see, and it's gonna be a fucking bloodbath.

Personally, I can't wait to see it all go to hell.

[up] The Dems are going to have to work their asses off to regain the trust of the working rural class. The Republicans will come up with excuses, they always do, and the Dems will have to combat those excuses with a genuine effort of outreach. You have the Millennials. You have the minorities, mostly. You need more.

edited 9th Nov '16 6:22:25 PM by InAnOdderWay

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#152890: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:21:24 PM

I suspect that instead of Der Trumpenfurher, we'll wind up with King Log. Trump will have a throne moved into the Oval Office, and he'll sit back and stroke his own ego, and be a do-nothing figurehead. That might not be as bad as we feared.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#152891: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:21:45 PM

Rachel Maddow was on the verge of openly weeping on national TV...

My god...

It's starting to hit me all over again.

New Survey coming this weekend!
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#152892: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:23:25 PM

[up][up] Fat chance fam. Republican controlled government is something that the GOP thought they'd never see again 5 months ago. They sure as hell aren't passing up this opportunity now. Any hopes of Republican reform have burned up in smoke, Trump has singlehandedly destroyed and revived the GOP over the course of 12 months.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#152893: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:23:27 PM

Another thing to consider is that a recession is extremely likely according to everything I've read. The economy is going to get shredded. That's not going to be good for Trump's approval ratings.

[up] I think what pwiegle meant is that Trump himself is unlikely to go full Dictator: Fascist Redux edition. Instead Pence and the rest of his cabinet will be doing most everything, which is still horrible but not necessarily apocalyptic depending on how things go.

edited 9th Nov '16 6:25:56 PM by Draghinazzo

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#152894: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:25:45 PM

It's not the working class rurals who went for Trump, it's the middle class ones with union jobs and such. It's the faltering-middle-class, people who have a solid income and money in the bank (often owning their own house) but are seeing the way they survived fall apart, the factory is shutting down and the towns slowly dying, they're still much more comfortable then the actual working classes but they're actually much deeper in despair over their situation.

And yes we are looking likely to get ego celeb Trump, that's better than things could have been but only in that we will have Pence and Ryan in charge and no risk of nuclear Armageddon or Clinton being shot.

edited 9th Nov '16 6:26:40 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#152895: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:26:13 PM

[up][up] Theoretically. Remember, event horizon, we have no fucking clue what happens now. Trump wasn't supposed to run, nevermind win the primaries, nevermind survive the debates, nevermind win the fucking election. It's safe to assume that Donald Trump knows no concept of the terms "can't", "don't", "couldn't", "shouldn't", "won't", or any other such iteration.

[up] Either way, not something to be ignored or cast aside.

edited 9th Nov '16 6:26:53 PM by InAnOdderWay

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152896: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:31:38 PM

[up][up] Yes, but that still leaves a bunch of questions. Trump made a point in the primaries of removing the bit about contesting Putin's annexation of Crimea and general saber rattling in Ukraine, which suggests his desire for warmer relations with Russia (at best) is genuine.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#152897: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:32:49 PM

[up][up]I understand and that fear is legitimate but also think of it this way: do you honestly expect Trump to want to do any actual presidential work? I can see him firing off some executive orders when pissed off that will hurt people but for the most part being president is an exhausting, emotionally draining job. Both Obama and Dubya were extremely grizzled and tired-looking at the end of their two terms. This was never about doing any actual political work, just basking in the glory of his own ego. He's not going to want to deal with the pressure and the expectations.

Like some people were predicting nuclear war/the end of civilization and while I won't take it for granted that it's impossible, I also think that Pence and his cronies aren't suicidal enough to not take measures against Trump firing off the codes for nukes.

edited 9th Nov '16 6:33:38 PM by Draghinazzo

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152898: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:35:00 PM

I'm still not sure whether Trump is a deeply cynical political mastermind who has embraced Obfuscating Stupidity or just ridiculously lucky, so I'm really not sure Trump is just going to sit back and play puppet. Certainly not all the time.

edited 9th Nov '16 6:36:04 PM by CaptainCapsase

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#152899: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:35:48 PM

[up]X3 The Russia stuff only happens if Trump is in charge of foreign policy, which it's currently indicated he won't be.

Worry when Trump gets his twitter account back, because then the lead he's on is being loosened and he might be about to gain some actual policy control.

[up] Hope he is a puppet on the policy front, because non-puppet Trump is a facist who will see an end to American democracy.

President Pence in all but name is the best case scenario now folks.

edited 9th Nov '16 6:37:20 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#152900: Nov 9th 2016 at 6:38:32 PM

[up][up] He is a con man. He's legitimately stupid, but lucid enough to play people along using what little smarts he does have.


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