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megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#152776: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:18:36 PM

I keep reading and re-reading "The Crisis". Like, I want to take solace in it.

edited 9th Nov '16 4:19:14 PM by megarockman

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
MysteryMan23 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#152777: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:19:31 PM

@Draghinazzo: Yeah, I can see that now. Honestly, I wasn't seeing "shock" so much as "fear, anger, and sadness."

@Ambar: I don't doubt that people have tried to convince rural towns of the error of their ways and failed; I can at least trust you've witnessed at least one case of that. Actually, I think we might want to look into those sorts of cases in general, at least to get an idea of the problems we face in that area.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152778: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:19:36 PM

[up][up][up] When the only other game in town is also bigoted, they only need to be slightly better than the GOP, and I imagine, at first, that it would start as a cynical attempt to win over voters.

edited 9th Nov '16 4:19:43 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#152779: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:19:42 PM

@Cap, if they do that they are done as a party. The Dems need massive minority turnout to win elections.

Its why they lost last night, had Clinton got the minority vote in NC and Florida (which also would have shored up her firewall), she could have pulled off a win.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#152780: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:19:52 PM

From the looks of things I made the right choice in getting the hell out of here last night. Things have been fairly shitty.

It's a pretty bad time to say "I Told You So", and to be fair I was expecting a Hilary sweep, but.... I sort of told you so a few days ago. That you cannot just ignore (little under half) of the nation and brush them, their concerns, and their identity aside as simple general bigotry and be surprised when (little under half of the nation) does not follow you. Those who are not helped help themselves. And don't pull that "well we were going to help them anyways" shit. It doesn't count if you would have helped them in the long run, ultimately the Democratic party did not care enough about the rural community to court them, especially in the Rust Belt. We're back to the good ol' days of urban vs. rural warfare, and there is no neutral ground this time around.

So, uh.... idk what happens now. Death of Obamacare, increased rates of police brutality, the Supreme Court, an attempt at The Wall, Republican masturbation, the undoing of Obama's legacy, and.... uh....???

Abortion and LGBT rights are obviously in jeopardy here, but I don't see an easy route for the Republicans to it. Whatever's left of the Democrats is going to fight tooth and nail to obstruct those issues particularly, leading to likely some legendary moments of filibustering. It's going to be a media shitshow, a cultural circus, just a clusterfuck all around that I'm not sure will work out in the GOP's favor in the end. Either way, Trump is definitely going to push us into a Democrat controlled legislative branch in 2018, but I suspect that we won't need to wait until then for shit to go south.

CDRW Since: May, 2016
#152781: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:20:16 PM

@ Aceofspades: Yup, it's too much work to engage in actual dialogue. It's much easier to just hate the bad guys and offer them solutions they don't want or need then blame them for not doing anything to change their situation. Sounds a lot like a strawman Republican. Not So Different.

Mr.Didact Keep Hope Alive from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Naked on a bearskin rug, playing the saxophone
Keep Hope Alive
#152782: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:22:09 PM

I think another likely route is for the Democrats to emulate Sanders and focus on solving problems with economy. A lot of young people were for Bernie, white and otherwise.

Stand Fast, Stand Strong, Stand Together
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#152783: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:22:38 PM

I will say this for those too young to remember.

It's not the end of the world. It is bad, though. We're in 2004 right now. George W. Bush has just been re-elected for a second term despite everyone knowing what an incompetent f*cking moron he is, because we're just so afraid of the terrorists that we let it override our common decency.

It's a going to be a hard four years. Many people's lives have been placed in mortal danger by the hate frenzy going around the nation and we need to do everything in our power to keep those people safe. Our economy is going to nose-dive into recession. Prices are going to go up. A lot of us are going to need to think really carefully about what we choose to spend money on.

But above all else, we must never stop fighting. Remember: those four years were shit, but when they were over and everyone could look around at the horror Bush had left in his wake? We got ourselves an Obama. Because we didn't stop fighting.

The dream isn't dead. The dream will never be dead. Even if you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, it is your responsibility, your duty as an American, to keep trudging forward. This is not our first backslide as a nation. It will not be the last. But we have never allowed hatred and bigotry to hold us back and we have achieved a net positive development as a result.

They're going to take some rights away. And in two years time, we're going to make them stop because we're going to reclaim the Senate. And two years after that? We're going to start taking those rights back. And we'll keep moving forward as a country, because that is who we are. We're stubborn goddamn Americans and we rise to the f*cking challenge.

So I'm telling every one of you who lives in this country and is staring terrified into the vast abyss to martial your courage. The enemy is at our gates. Evil lurks in those dread shadows. It is not your imagination. But we will fight and overcome.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152784: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:22:41 PM

@rational: That rather depends on how far the GOP goes to suppress minority votes.

[up][up] That's my hope, but given how Clinton did relatively well in the south, aiming for "values" voters is an option, which means dropping the pro-LGBT stances and perhaps even the pro-abortion stances. Especially if Trump turns out not to care about either. Embracing outright racism is unlikely unless the GOP heavily suppresses minority votes with their control of the senate, but trying to appeal to evangelicals and the like seems frighteningly plausible.

edited 9th Nov '16 4:25:15 PM by CaptainCapsase

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#152785: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:24:48 PM

@Caspase

Impossible. The Latin demographic is going to continue growing no matter what the Republicans do short of outright genocide. Someone's gonna want to tap into those votes, and the Democratic Party has too many women and minorities making up its core to be worthwhile.

Mr.Didact Keep Hope Alive from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Naked on a bearskin rug, playing the saxophone
Keep Hope Alive
#152786: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:24:50 PM

@Tobias, the Dragon is right! Now is the time to dig in not to give up!

Stand Fast, Stand Strong, Stand Together
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#152787: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:25:42 PM

Comparing this election to 2004 is almost insulting. I literally miss Dubya.

Christ, give me Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, etc. over this fucker.

New Survey coming this weekend!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152788: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:26:12 PM

[up][up][up] the Latino vote is concentrated in relatively noncompetitive states, and I wouldn't put it past the GOP to write laws making it even easier for them to gerrymander districts against minority populations.

That being said, I'm less worried about the democrats embracing that sort of bigotry and more worried about them going all in trying to appeal to religious voters and people who are socially conservative in other ways, which is definitely something which is viable with hispanics.

edited 9th Nov '16 4:28:04 PM by CaptainCapsase

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#152789: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:26:42 PM

[up][up][up] Trump is going to put a huge dent in that with his 'deportations', that's the main reason why that will happen.

edited 9th Nov '16 4:27:01 PM by Memers

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#152790: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:27:14 PM

@Hillary being a super villain to rural America: Man, but they chose someone who's a supervillian to us. Probably they don't have any real awareness of the sheer... Nazi we're seeing. Understanding's gotta be a two-way street. It's hard to be understanding of someone who just chucked a grenade into your living room.

I don't think I don't understand. I do. But I'm already seeing calls to repeat the obstructionism that Obama faced. People saying 'if they can do it to us, we can do it to them'. I can just the same thing that happened to the GOP happening to the Dems- every time one of them gives Trump an inch, he'll be booted, and the fringes of the party will get stronger and stronger.

America's gonna end up more divided than ever.

And some people might be about to accuse me of drawing a false equivalence. So I should say that obviously Obama is better than Trump, really that's not even up for debate. But the way things are heading strikes me as a recipe for an election between two even crazier people. Maybe the right will be asking us how we can support an anti-vaxxer in the same way we're asking them how they can support a nazi.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#152791: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:29:00 PM

That's my hope, but given how Clinton did relatively well in the south

...Are we looking at the same election map? Because she lost literally the entire South (NM doesn't count I guess). Even Obama did better in the South.

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#152792: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:29:29 PM

[up][up]That is something I was going to bring up - what would stop the GOP from calling hypocrite if the remaining Senate Democrats filibuster?

edited 9th Nov '16 4:29:45 PM by megarockman

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#152793: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:29:30 PM

Uh, hate to be the one to tell you this, (if you don't know this already)
I'm aware, but it's basically the political equivalent of "Ye Who Smelt It Dealt It", and the Clintons, thus ratifying it, are held responsible for it. Bill's name was on it, so Hillary holds guilt by association.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152794: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:29:40 PM

[up][up][up] In terms of the white south, she did better than Obama by a decent margin.

edited 9th Nov '16 4:30:16 PM by CaptainCapsase

MysteryMan23 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#152795: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:29:51 PM

Re: Pykrete's idea.

Yeah, I agree with engaging people. It won't be easy, and it will often be uncomfortable, but that's true of a whole lot of worthwhile endeavors. And honestly, if I have learned anything in my life, it's that you shouldn't avoid a course of action just because it's hard or uncomfortable.

@Tobias Drake: Well said. [awesome]

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#152796: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:29:58 PM

[up][up][up] Considering Trump pushed a lot of things that should be completely antithetical to them and they didn't care, there's no point in actively pandering to them either. My only hope from this election is that the evangelical platform no longer holds any relevance as a party message.

LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#152797: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:30:03 PM

@Alley Oop

Didn't help the Dems much this time. Trump actually did better with Latinos than Romney. And Hillary could barely get 50% of the white women vote.

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152798: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:32:06 PM

[up][up] I definitely agree that appealing to the rust belt is much more likely to work, but my fear is that, faced with having to chose between capitulating to the demands of labor, democratic politicians will try to take the way out that lets them continue enriching friends in the private sector.

edited 9th Nov '16 4:32:28 PM by CaptainCapsase

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#152799: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:32:09 PM

Trump did better with Latinos because Cubans in Florida are pissed at Obama for thawing relations with Cuba.

[up][up] I definitely agree that appealing to the rust belt is more likely to work, but my fear is that, faced with having to chose between capitulating to the demands of labor, politicians will try to take the way out that lets them continue enriching friends in the private sector.
Which is becoming the running issue.

Voters in Left Parties want those labor demands/economic reform, but the party leadership is tied to the Beltway/Financial Sector in major countries.

edited 9th Nov '16 4:33:33 PM by PotatoesRock

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#152800: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:32:20 PM

Still it means it's essentially impossible for the Democrats to pivot and gun for the xenophobe vote in the way of Blairite Labour like Caspase suggested.


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