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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152726: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:41:29 PM

@Ambar: What other choice do we have? Being the Doomed Moral Victor isn't really a valid option.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:45:18 PM by CaptainCapsase

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#152727: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:42:10 PM

There goes everyone's insurance and there goes so many lives that could have been saved. The first deaths of the Trump administration..

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#152730: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:43:38 PM

That's not really related to the fact that many Trump supporters are not in that situation or voted for him for those reasons. I don't know why so many people are skirting around this and it's getting a little frustrating and too close to "BUT NOT ALL" for my liking.

Rest assured, you probably don't have any more respect for Trump supporters than I do. There's desperation, and there's willful delusion. It came about for a very understandable reason, but, like, there's a friggen line.

That said, CDRW's point is that this situation will not under any circumstances get better and will in fact get worse as long as people keep talking down their noses and dismissing each other as the scum of humanity — and that does go both ways. If that dialogue was in place and people's needs ministered, Trump would've been the candidate of Neo-Nazis and nothing else, rather than the one that got a boost from Neo-Nazis then convinced people to genuinely buy into his racist bullshit.

I remember telling you guys a couple years back that I had to drive to my family reunion on an hour-long dirtpack US highway, and I was met with utter fucking disbelief. And that when I told said extended family how much I was paying in rent in the city, they thought I was lying. This is that lack of discourse. Talk to people. Hold your breath if you have to, because sometimes they're drowning in some fetid garbage — but talk to people.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:44:29 PM by Pykrete

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#152731: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:46:07 PM

[up][up][up] That article is bullshit because it isn't going to happen. The new government doesn't support those and that is all that matters we will literally lose all that real soon, it's literally already begun just look at the last page.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:47:29 PM by Memers

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#152732: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:47:32 PM

Cars for cheaper prices and Mexicans having more incentive to stay in Mexico than try to move to the US? Forget about it.

It isn't even a day after the confirmation of his election and the future of his supporters is already going to shit even faster.

Inter arma enim silent leges
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#152733: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:48:18 PM

@Pyrekete

Again, we're not unaware of their problems but they don't want help. They vote for Republicans who want to, for instance, slash infrastructure spending. Can't fix the dirt road problem then. They vote for people who cut social safety nets, then are mad they are poor. They vote for people who promise them the jobs of the past even though those jobs are dead for a reason.

Coal is not dead because of Obama. The car industry is not hurting because of Obama. They are where they are because the free market—the very thing the Republicans they vote for love—has moved on, or, in the case of coal, because there's not that much left.

How do you help them?

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#152734: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:48:52 PM

What we must ask ourselves is "why?" The answer to that question is probably quite a bit more complicated than simple bigotry, though I have little doubt you'd find such attitudes in abundance in such places.

If that one Cracked article (not the "don't panic one", the one about the rural voters) is any indication the reason seems to stem at least partly from their culture.

They're used to being alone. Only relying on themselves and their own hard work. It seems like you're pressured to not accept help from even your neighbor if you can help it. So I assume they view stuff like welfare as a mark of shame, despite the fact they want the government to bring back their old jobs. Go figure.

I'm not sure what to do about the situation myself since I'm not super well-educated about their conditions.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:50:28 PM by Draghinazzo

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#152735: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:49:00 PM

That Cracked article is bullshit. If you don't think the GOP is going to run up the score to the point where they get everything they ever wanted and make sure the system is rigged against political competitors (via radical gerrymandering and extreme disenfranchisement actions) for all time, then you're deluded. It keeps referring to public opinion as if the GOP gives a damn about it.

Supreme Court's gone, people. The rest is a matter of waiting for 35 years for that to settle.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#152736: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:49:51 PM

The GOP doesn't care about public opinion. Or at least not about nonwhite, non-straight opinion.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#152737: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:51:36 PM

If the GOP goes all out and fulfills its platforms, the United States won't be a democracy by modern/1st world standards in 2-4 years.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#152738: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:51:59 PM

Coal is not dead because of Obama. The car industry is not hurting because of Obama. They are where they are because the free market—the very thing the Republicans they vote for love—has moved on, or, in the case of coal, because there's not that much left.
They went for Obama because he promised them change. Hillary to the Rust Belt is the supervillain who destroyed their lives via NAFTA.

How do you help them?
Don't make the top of your ticket the woman who is the Final Boss of the Rust Belt for stealing their jobs with trade deals. lol.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#152739: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:53:10 PM

So, am I the only one feeling ashamed to be American today?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#152740: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:54:12 PM

I'm not an american so I just feel really misanthropic.

RedRob Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: One Is The Loneliest Number
#152741: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:54:24 PM

I would say one should improve education in those rural areas. Maybe then they'll realize they aren't exactly helping themselves any. Though I think education is decided by local state government, so they would have to accept it first.

edited 9th Nov '16 4:25:08 PM by RedRob

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet Unless I grew it. In that case, throw it in the trash.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#152742: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:55:20 PM

[up]Precisely. So once again—how do you help those who do not want it?

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#152743: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:56:27 PM

Ashamed, disillusioned, afraid, loathing, you name it.

[up][up] Educated people are not as easy to control so they won't do that at all. If anything they will continue to cut education across to board.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:58:13 PM by Memers

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#152744: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:56:40 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]I found that a ridiculous and unhelpful position during the Bush administration, and I find it ridiculous and unhelpful now. If we're just going to have a cultural cringe for the next four years, nothing will get done.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:56:59 PM by AceofSpades

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#152745: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:56:58 PM

How do you help them?

Make it personal. Most of us are more liberal than our parents specifically because we were forced to move into cities for jobs. Bring something back. Contrast the difference of needs. Raise the alarm to your city-district congress, because chances are they haven't even looked. Be ready to give ground on things you thought were critical, because in a small town they may well not even be sustainable (public transit comes to mind). And when you're told about some welfare queen they knew 30 years ago in college, tell them about the 10 homeless folks you walk past every day to the bus stop — and get their stories if you can.

Bring all of this stuff into their monkeysphere. The moment it gets personal, it starts getting better. Hell, even in the early stages of school integration when white folks were bussed into black schools, funding followed them within months.

And above all else, give them an alternative between a city legislator who runs the rural areas into the ground, and a corrupt Republican who takes advantage of them for financial gain but at least pretends to give a rat's ass and throws them the occasional bone.

Don't make the top of your ticket the woman who is the Final Boss of the Rust Belt for stealing their jobs with trade deals. lol.

That too. I know you guys love Hillary around here, but she really was the worst choice you could've made.

edited 9th Nov '16 4:16:12 PM by Pykrete

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#152746: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:56:59 PM

Ditto. At least I know my state didn't vote Trump in but it's a cold comfort.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
MysteryMan23 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#152747: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:57:07 PM

@Draghinazzo, Ambar etc.: I think I get it now. All this acrimony and, well, hatred against those who voted Trump into power, it's because you're afraid for those who will be hurt because of this, and you want to protect them. I understand, and I do agree that we should work to protect those in danger because of this.

At the same time, however, I believe that we should be working towards figuring out what's been going wrong so we can address it, and elect people that will take a stand against bigotry, hatred, and whatnot. And part of it is figuring out what to do with those who elected Trump and the Republicans in the first place. And honestly, dismissing them as irredeemable is not the answer.

Sure, they voted for Trump. Sure, they consistently vote against measures that will help them. But we need to figure out why, and convince them that they were wrong to do so. It won't be easy, but what choice do we have if we're going to win future elections?

As for Ogodei, well, we can fight that too. And we should. Whatever we do, we must Not. Give. Up. Not on the lives and hopes of minorities, not on convincing people that we're right, and not on the future of our democracy. We all have our concerns here, and I think we can safely say they're legitimate. Let's not argue over whose worries are more important; let's work to address them all.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152748: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:57:21 PM

@Ambar: Once again, I don't know, but we can't afford not to find a way to get through to them, otherwise this is going to keep happening again and again and again.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:57:38 PM by CaptainCapsase

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#152749: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:00:43 PM

I say this song is more fitting then ever for our situation, even more so then when it was written in the Bush administration:

edited 9th Nov '16 4:00:57 PM by Demongodofchaos2

Watch Symphogear
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#152750: Nov 9th 2016 at 4:01:19 PM

@Capsase

I have nothing against the idea of getting through to them. I have something against the people who seem to think it hasn't been tried.


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