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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
" I can't help but shake the impression that Trump is actually quite a bit smarter than he actually seems"
He is more cunning(think he more like ork and you will get it) but not that smart, he barely win against Hilary and most of the time she used her own words against him.
in short, he have talent for deception but he is not disciplined, that would cost him a lot in the long run, right now real problem its that the american public will suffer greatly for his decisions
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Also the Yugioh Abridged guy made this.
edited 9th Nov '16 3:16:52 PM by xanderiskander
These are the grievances that a great deal of the people who voted for Trump have, they say it constantly, and it's never addressed. I grew up in exactly the sort of town that voted for Trump, and outsiders don't care. Nobody else cared that we had to ration water every single year because of a perpetual drought, a reservoir that was silting up, and no money to dredge it. Nobody cared that the mines were failing and the economy with it, nobody cared about the local impact of the proposal to build a nuclear plant in the area, they didn't care about the jobs that it would create or the water that it would use up. Nobody cared about the fact that the nearest hospital is forty miles away, many of the local businesses can't afford to give health insurance to their employees, and that the Affordable Healthcare Act which was supposed to help people exactly like them is still too expensive to actually use.
Instead, at every turn, they're strawmanned into this:
and told to shut up because there's only one black man in town.
Is it any wonder that these people don't believe in the system and embrace anything that looks different no matter how bad it is? honestly don't know if I would have voted the way I did if I still lived there because the community is dying and the rest of the country is peeing on its grave.
In an ideal world and demeanor, sure. I understand that respect and patience are invaluable tools in any kind of activism. And I do think that it is important to try and extend these things where possible to people who just didn't know any better.
But I think you're coming across as tone-deaf because the guy who just got elected essentially put open bigotry into power AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE IN DANGER.
And yes, even open and conscious bigots can change their views but you're basically asking someone to be perfect in the face of inferno of hate. People aren't perfect.
If you don't understand what the problem here is I'm not exactly sure what I can say that will make you understand, except to do as you're proposing and have some sympathy for the people who are going to suffer under the boot of oppression for the foreseeable future before you ask those same people to sympathize with the people who created that situation.
Any and all Trump jokes are now Funny Aneurysm Moments.
But he'll always be Cheeto Benito to me.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas EdisonBense what you're asking for is sounding like exactly what Karl Popper warned against with his famous quote about the paradox of tolerating intolerance and how it leads to an intolerant society.
edited 9th Nov '16 3:19:36 PM by AlleyOop
Hatred is toxic sure. But hating someone for the negative things they do is much more understandable then hating them out of fear or prejudice.
My sympathies lie much more with the minorities that will get oppressed than the bigots who feel threatened by people disadvantaged by society.
Stand Fast, Stand Strong, Stand Together![]()
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The logic behind that argument is deeply flawed, but I lack the background in logical fallacies to articulate what kind of fallacy you're committing here. At risk of Godwin's Law, you're basically saying that we're not allowed to hate Adolf Hitler for his rabid racism that he took to such a level he was willing to destroy his own country when it failed to live up to his deluded Master Race ideal.
edited 9th Nov '16 3:19:47 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.Many many people won't live here at all and those that do will be systematically targeted with entitlement programs and even worse.
edited 9th Nov '16 3:20:39 PM by Memers
Bense, CDRW, you're acting as if there's an equivalency here. Not wanting to befriend a bigot because they're a bigot, thinking they're never going to be on your side because they literally see who you are as a threat to themselves, is not the equivalent to hating someone because of who they are. The people who are homophobes and racists take active steps to deny entire groups of people their civil rights. Their worth as people.
And here you are saying we should be tolerant of this intolerance. That is, in no way at all, fair. You are, in all ways, ignoring what other people are saying; that they are worried about their actual safety now that we're in an environment where this sort of thing is considered a valid opinion.
Bullshit, pure fucking bullshit.
We're not supposed to coddle and accept the beliefs of people who openly think that things like civil rights don't apply to groups they don't like.
If any element of a society chose to believe in a doctrine that is harmful to everyone else in that society, they should be called out on their bullshit. It doesn't matter if they are entitled to their opinions, it doesn't matter if they have their own concerns and it doesn't matter if they have their own struggles. They chose to adopt a set of beliefs that are detrimental to the well being of others and everyone else doesn't and shouldn't tolerate them for that.
It is was plain obvious that electing Trump will bring harmful consequences to a lot of people based solely on religion, gender, sexual orientation and race alone. There is no fucking excuse by Trump voters to feign ignorance because those issues we're put to scrutiny for over a year. They don't get to say, that discrimination wasn't at play with Trump's campaign when Breibart was leading it, the KKK and the Neo-Nazi endorsed him and that the Alt-Right rhetoric was strong with Trump.
They still voted for him knowing all that and they are liable to receive all scrutiny attached to it.
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I have Jewish blood, I am allowed to hate Hitler as much as I'd like to.
edited 9th Nov '16 3:25:37 PM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent legesIf Trump was truly sincere about wanting us to come together in his acceptance speech, he would have denounced hate crimes and intimidation (such as the ones we've already seen!). He said nothing of the sort.
Also, not sure if this has been posted in the Global Terrorism thread yet, but to no one's surprise, Daesh celebrates Trump being elected.
Ironically, Trump repeatedly claimed they'd be celebrating if HILLARY was elected.
edited 9th Nov '16 3:24:29 PM by speedyboris
I wasn't trying to imply those weren't real issues that many people are suffering from, or that they don't deserve attention. That's exactly why I even mentioned them in the first place. There was a cracked article talking about the rural areas where things are horrible and why they turned to Trump in the first place. I think that they were wrong but I understand why they made that mistake. I'm not trying to lump those people in with bigots or act like their problems aren't important.
The thing is, I said this:
For a reason. Because for a lot of people that was basically the main thing. Way too many of them. And we can't just ignore that or pretend it isn't the case. That's all anyone is trying to say.
I would also ask that you keep in mind what the state of things is presently and why people here are saying the things they are. So many of us have friends, family, or ARE people who will be deeply hurt by the fact that this man was elected. That in the face of his open contempt from anyone different than him, for muslims, black people, latinos, women, etc he was validated. None of the horrible stuff about him mattered. People are still grieving.
If you're asking people to be understanding of someone else's problems you should probably be doing the same. Just saying.
I might add that it's been mentioned many times before that those rural voters and others consistently vote against measures that would help them. I'm not going to advocate leaving them to rot at all, but I don't know how much we can really do, anyways.
Also I'm 100% behind Alley Oop, Mr. Didact and everyone else. The idea that all "intolerance" is equal is extremely naive.
edited 9th Nov '16 3:26:18 PM by Draghinazzo
CDRW is not making a false equivalence. He's giving an example of a small town that's been pissed on without so much as a second glance and then asking you why you're surprised they'll vote for anything anti-establishment.
I've been on that end of things before. My home county went for Trump by like 40 points because they've been in a death spiral for over 20 years with no funding, excessive regulation on small farms, and an inverted demographic pyramid because there are no jobs for young people, and nobody in Portland gives a rat's ass because they've never set foot outside city limits.
edited 9th Nov '16 3:28:01 PM by Pykrete
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I'd disagree with the notion that the moral absolutism of the social-left is as destructive as the bigotry on the right. Certainly right now, the right is a much bigger concern than any hypothetical, half formed authoritarian left in America.
But I do think that particular attitude is also a problem which makes it much more difficult to people to move past bigoted views.
edited 9th Nov '16 3:28:51 PM by CaptainCapsase

edited 9th Nov '16 3:10:37 PM by Memers