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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#152651: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:56:35 PM

Well we've heard it all before from drive by conservatives.

Meanwhile, the ones actively being violent are running loose.in the country. But no, a bunch of guys on a forum bitching about those violent nuts are just as evil.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#152652: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:57:01 PM

"The content of the rhetoric doesn't matter, but the effect. Being disgusted with bigotry isn't evil, but the root cause of bigotry is hate and us vs. them mentality. That is exactly what the rhetoric in this thread is inspiring, hatred and a deepening of the us vs. them divide. Both sides hate the other because they're unwilling to listen to and address their grievances. So yes, the rhetoric here is bigoted. The words may be different but the flavor is the same."

Fine, and the Trump camp made it an us versus them struggle when they decided that vocal racism, xenophobia, homophobia, and misogyny weren't, individually or in total, unacceptable in a President. They made it crystal clear, for example, that I, a person of color, is worthless in their vision of America. If I am socially thrown under the bus, so be it. They proved with their vote that they are no friends of mine. Civility requires that we treat them with respect, but there is a gulf between me and the average Trump supporter that will simply never be narrowed; politically, morally, socially.

I'm not going to stand arm in arm with people who intrinsically despise me, and I'm not going to coddle anyone who can't confront the fact that they greenlit bigotry with their vote. Direct bigotry, tacit bigotry, and apathy are all different, but they all rightly deserve censure.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:58:52 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#152653: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:57:52 PM

Its not like the left is going to sit down and shut up, protests and activism will continue (and probably intensify).

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#152654: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:58:02 PM

" A nice wave of voter disenfranchisement will do it nicely."

Actually ambar, I feel this will happen to Trump in few years, why? because while the racist vote will remain loyal to him(lets face it, they dont care about their policies only that he share their beliefs) but the delusional ones(you know, the voters who really belief all the republican bullshit about him being a poor underdog who make his fortune and Hilary being the devil) will turn on him because...well, "telling like it is" dosent work that much once you see his government skills(which are next to 0)

the real question will be how much their fans can take before they see their mistakes, but for that only time will tell.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#152655: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:58:46 PM

And most of all...Polling in the 21st century is dead. Let's not kid ourselves here. They weren't just off, but it was the equivalent of missing at point blank with a Shotgun. They missed the silent shy Trump voters. Hell, they were LOOKING for it, and they STILL missed it. The implications of this cannot be overstated. Polling for anything now is suspect. ANYTHING. Hell, even Americans preferences for gay marriage, abortion, etc. ALL of it is now suspect, no matter how well the polling agency is rated on 538.
A big reason for that is most polls were still conducted by calling home phones. A lot of people don't have them anymore and just use cell phones now.

Shippudentimes Since: Dec, 2012
#152656: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:58:54 PM

I would love if, when aliens come down to Earth after we're gone, that they interpret this as the only record left of our 45th president.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152657: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:58:55 PM

[up][up][up] Or he could make like Chavez and govern in a way that creates the mother of all economic bubbles which conveniently bursts after he's already out of office.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:59:17 PM by CaptainCapsase

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#152658: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:59:07 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] Which do nothing and will continue to do nothing aside from having a greater chance of getting you killed now.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:00:13 PM by Memers

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#152659: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:01:09 PM

Whoever thinks that Trump campaign didn't run on bigotry aimed towards women, minorities and the LGBT+ groups should look for James O'Keefe, Milo Yiannopoulos, Stephen Bannon and give a good and long read to Breibarts articles.

Then you will see the kind of people Trump decided to associate himself with and that they think of everyone else.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#152660: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:01:22 PM

I'm hoping the presidency will build Trump some character, which I suspect is possible. It is not too late for Trump to throw the white supremacists under the bus to some extent, and it may be in his interests to do so. He wanted to channel anger in order to gain power. Now the angry people are no longer useful to him.

But take warning: this is an optimistic appraisal. And, either way, the bigots will be emboldened. A just society must keep an eye out for them.

I am kind of happy for my party, but I'm scared that Trump may have left lasting changes.

Leviticus 19:34
Mr.Didact Keep Hope Alive from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Naked on a bearskin rug, playing the saxophone
Keep Hope Alive
#152661: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:01:22 PM

@Memers, if their activism can get things done, ours can too. This has always been an uphill battle. It doesn't stop just because we fell down for a moment. If we give up, then we have truly lost. Giving up is simply not an option.

Stand Fast, Stand Strong, Stand Together
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#152662: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:01:29 PM

And the Entitlement reforms. Oh good lord the entitlement reforms.

I wonder how many people will go homeless because of Ryan's delusional love for Ayn Rand, including myself.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152663: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:02:59 PM

[up]x5 The struggles our generation has been through thus far pale in comparison to the great struggles of previous centuries. Thousands of people at a minimum died in the course of the pivotal civil rights movement, many more in the broader labor movement.

This isn't the end. At most, it's the end of the beginning.

[down] Just now. I hope you're right by the way, but I can't help but shake the impression that Trump is actually quite a bit smarter than he actually seems, though no less morally deficient.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:04:43 PM by CaptainCapsase

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#152664: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:03:28 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up][up]frst of all: when you return cap? good to see you here again.

and second, Chavez take 16 years to actually create the mess in my country and unlike him, Trump is too self defeating and undisciplined, sooner or later he will make a mess of himself

edited 9th Nov '16 3:04:32 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#152665: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:04:11 PM

I truly love this argument that hating bigotry and the people who espouse it is somehow intolerant.
Of course it is intolerant. Hating any group because of one shared characteristic of that group (in this case, a vote) is intolerance. I find it deliciously ironic - people loudly proclaiming intolerance of the intolerant and being completely blind to the inconsistency of their own position.

The better course is to hate bad ideas but show respect, mercy, and a willingness to understand to the people who believe them, with the hope that they may eventually change their views.

Hate the sin rather than the sinner, essentially.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#152666: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:04:21 PM

[up]x5 There isn't any way too do that since bigots don't listen. Protests fall on deaf ears or at the barrel of someone else's gun.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:06:49 PM by Memers

FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#152667: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:06:11 PM

[up][up] It's a little overoptimistic, considering the only thing that would placate these people is the suffering of others.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:06:29 PM by FergardStratoavis

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152668: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:06:18 PM

[up][up] Bigots are human beings. People can change their opinions.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:06:28 PM by CaptainCapsase

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#152669: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:06:26 PM

I'm worried about the Democrats. On one hand I don't want them to play the blame game while Trump is assuming power, but on the other hand we can't allow these results to repeat in 2020. Some thing needs to be done

I'm worried because after Reagan won and then was reelected, democrats spent 30 years running scared and being unwilling to be progressive for fear of setting off another, similar wave. (Never mind that every time a Democrat got put into the White House a wave of reactionary/obstructive Republicans came in anyway, no matter how much said Democrat tried to be moderate.)

Now they were just starting to get over the fear of Reagan's ghost, put out the most progressive and vision/platform that they'd laid out in 40 years, complete with raising wages across the board, drastically changing and improving educational access, recognition of the civil rights of various groups... and they got a surprise beating by an opponent who never should have had a shot.

How are they going to react to that? Because they're going to go to where they imagine the votes are. Despite what accelerationist types think when they refuse to vote for someone because the they're just not feeling inspired enough by the candidate or the candidate isn't enough of a perfect, morally pure, and unique snowflake that has traditionally made the Democratic Party decide that their mistake was going too far with their platform/ideas, (regardless of whether that was true) which in turn brings us back to triangulation and the neoliberalism that these voters on the left claim to hate so.

Then they don't vote because the candidates still aren't perfect enough, (and have, in fact, gotten worse) and the result is Democrats going further in trying to be Republicans-lite.

I may not be around for it, (the fiancee and I are doing actual, serious looking into moving up our wedding and trying to get work in Canada, especially as we'd had some thought about moving abroad before this mess of an election) but regardless I want to see the country and its people do well, and this is not going anywhere near what I, at least, think is the correct direction.

And people I care about are going to suffer as this continues, and the sheer inanity of it all just makes me feel old and tired.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#152670: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:07:04 PM

The people who proved that mysogyny was not a disqualifier for President were those who voted for Bill Clinton in 1992 - more than 20 years ago.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#152671: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:07:52 PM

For better or worse, I think it's safe to say the Dems are done with Hillary. I'll be amazed if she has the chutzpah to mount another run.

All the Democrats underestimated how toxic she was outside her core voter base, but I'm pretty sure they all know it now. At the very least she of all people is very, very aware of it now. If she lost to Trump, she'd have lost to literally anyone. Much as I dislike the lady, that's gotta feel like total shit.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152672: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:08:02 PM

[up][up][up] It depends. Their two options are going for the rust belt, which likely means looking to people like Sanders for cues given his major primary victories in that region, or going for the south, which probably means going to the right socially as well as fiscally to an extent.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:08:22 PM by CaptainCapsase

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#152673: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:08:08 PM

@Bense

Bull. Hating people because they want to harm others is a far cry from hating people because of who they are.

If you want to advocate for us to be kind to the Klan you can do so, but you're not gonna find a lot of traction here.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:09:11 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#152674: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:08:32 PM

Nice to see you again Cap as well.

The Democrats are at a serious crossroads, and I don't know if they'll get their act together in time.

Republicans don't exactly have this locked up either (we'll see how many jump on big spending), but since Trump is especially pliable, I'm not confident.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:09:55 PM by Eschaton

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#152675: Nov 9th 2016 at 3:09:03 PM

[up][up] I would rather reject hatred on principle. It's just about the most toxic emotional state one can encounter.

edited 9th Nov '16 3:09:14 PM by CaptainCapsase


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