Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Yankee Doodle Dandy
I'm gonna be posting local election news.
Maine voters approve recreational marijuana use.
Montana passes measure to expand medical marijuana.
Arkansas and North Dakota legalize Medical Marijuana.
Florida voters approve broad use of medical marijuana.
edited 9th Nov '16 2:37:56 PM by Demonic_Braeburn
Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
Kind of quiet
I'll say this: yes, racism and bigotry are bad things, and really, we should be working to convince people that they are and that they should cut it out. However, I feel like talking to people who are racist or bigoted and figure out why they feel how they feel. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that's part of the work; figuring out why people believe what they believe so we can form more convincing arguments. Yeah, their reasons likely won't be rational, but so what? We just take that into account when forming our arguments.
Put it this way, if we can't reason someone out of a belief they weren't reasoned into, that doesn't mean there's no way to convince them. Even them believing there's no way to convince them doesn't mean that it's true. We just need to figure out how.
Actually, I found this page a while back that might just give us some clues: here it is. This was written by someone who says they were bigoted once, but changed, and it talks about how it feels to be one. Hope this helps. 
edited 9th Nov '16 2:38:45 PM by MysteryMan23
Likely busy writing something.
In love with an Uptown Girl
LET'S GET HIGH EVERYONE!
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
The other reason is the sheer number of posts that happen on these threads - I can't keep up with them and still have a real life.
The law in the night
More from the racism thread:
Trump supporters everyone
http://usuncut.com/news/trump-supporters-philadelphia-paint-nazi-propaganda-election-night/
What a lovely bunch.
Inter arma enim silent leges
And this post proves, once again, that conservatives are held to a LOWER standard than liberals.
Why aren't you going to a pro-Trump and saying "Shame on them"? WE'RE not the ones making nazi graffiti? WE'RE not the ones who make Muslim women afraid of wearing a hijab.
edited 9th Nov '16 2:43:45 PM by NoName999
If your grievances are, say, "the government isn't helping me", "i'm afraid for my future and i don't have faith in this system", "i don't know whether i'm going to be able to have a job when i get my degree", those are things that can be talked about, understood or sympathized with.
If your grievances are "we hate these people because of the fact that they aren't white, christian, or straight" and not much else, what common ground is there to be found? I'm not saying you can't try and understand why a racist person came to develop those views and try to make them understand they're wrong, but that's not a legitimate grievance.
You are basically engaging in a false equivalence.
edited 9th Nov '16 2:46:21 PM by Draghinazzo
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
And they make up half the country, land of the free my ass.
Nah they make up 30-40% of the country. Problem is they're the ones that actually freaking vote. Us city folks plus the milennials often decide we don't have to.
edited 9th Nov '16 2:48:07 PM by xanderiskander
For what it's worth, I'm very upset American politics has come to this. I was up all last night watching the polls, and this thread as well. While I was initially expecting Clinton to win, I didn't really share the near certainty that the projections of the Huffington Post and New York Times that Clinton would prevail.
Seeing this skepticism vindicated has been emotionally draining to a degree I cannot adequately articulate with words. As much as I have criticized Clinton, I still cast my vote for her in New York, and still wanted her to win, even though I feared it was already too late to stop what had been set in motion this electoral cycle.
Unfortunately, we are now faced with the reality of President-Elect Trump. I desperately hope that the responsibility of governing will temper his volatile attitude (among his numerous other personal flaws), and I will admit that the tone of his acceptance speech was a start. I want to believe that most of the thinly veiled bigotry and authoritarian rhetoric was just for show, and given the outcome of the election, it's not like we have a choice in the matter. Failing that, I can only hope Trump is voted out of power peacefully after his four years are up.
Nevertheless, as always, I am deeply skeptical that either of these thingswill come to pass. Trump isn't the end of America barring the unthinkable (nuclear war), though his probable disregard for climate change may very well seal the fate of the human species in the long term.
In the short term, though, just keep on living your lives. There's nothing else to be done for now.
Yankee Doodle Dandy
I'm worried about the Democrats. On one hand I don't want them to play the blame game while Trump is assuming power, but on the other hand they can't allow these results to repeat in 2020. Some thing needs to be done
In concession, Clinton says Trump deserves chance to lead.
For better or worse, I think it's safe to say the Dems are done with Hillary. I'll be amazed if she has the chutzpah to mount another run.
edited 9th Nov '16 2:55:46 PM by Demonic_Braeburn
Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
drunk bunny
@This Post Wow, if this situation wasn't so terrible I'd in awe of this.
Student of Story
Cap, for what it's worth, that was well said and deserves a tip of my... cap. *Tips cap at Cap*
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
I don't believe that, but I DO think that chances of Pence and the cabinet being the one doing most of the governing are good. That's still a shitty situation but it probably wouldn't result in a nuclear war.
True, Trump is not the end of the United States. What pisses me off the most is the fear that certain people will live in for at least the next four years due to the validation that hate groups feel now that he's President-Elect.
The people of this country should not be afraid to wear a hijab or fear being lynched by racists.
@ No Name: You make it sound like I'm an outsider conservative who came to tvtropes just to scold you.
In love with an Uptown Girl
We can all only pray now, and see ourselves through this bullcrap.
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord, he has trampled on the vineyards where the grapes of wrath are stored, he has loosed the faithful lightning of his terrible swift sword, HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON!
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
I truly love this argument that hating bigotry and the people who espouse it is somehow intolerant. Invoking a Godwin for a moment, it's like saying that people who hate Jews and people who hate Hitler are "the same".
Basically. To me Trump's supporters, the deplorables, are the real people to be worried about. And while it's definitely going to be hell for the marginalized during the time between, what we know about the changing US demographic means that it is changing for the better to be more accepting. We just need to hold out and not fall apart completely until then.
edited 9th Nov '16 2:55:43 PM by AlleyOop
Holy shit.
It just hit me: Trump just literally changed everything about how campaigns are started, funded, polling, GOTV, etc.
He won without releasing his taxes. Expect no candidate from now on to release his/her taxes.
He won without a ground game. Expect GOTV to be massively scaled back in future presidential elections.
He won by being a celebrity and his "ground game" was social media. If you thought echo chambers were bad now, it's going to get turned Up To Eleven and more and more celebrities feel emboldened to run for office.
He basically proved to the GOP establishment that they don't need dog whistles. Expect overt racism from the GOP nominees from now on. They aren't even going to try to hide it.
Trump proved to women everywhere it doesn't matter how qualified you are or how hard you work. A straight white male will always come in and steal your thunder.
Trump has essentially raised the bar of what constitutes a "scandal" in a Presidential nominee. He was bragging about sexual assault and attacked veterans, and he got away with it, virtually scott free.
And most of all...Polling in the 21st century is dead. Let's not kid ourselves here. They weren't just off, but it was the equivalent of missing at point blank with a Shotgun. They missed the silent shy Trump voters. Hell, they were LOOKING for it, and they STILL missed it. The implications of this cannot be overstated. Polling for anything now is suspect. ANYTHING. Hell, even Americans preferences for gay marriage, abortion, etc. ALL of it is now suspect, no matter how well the polling agency is rated on 538.
The game has changed. Permanently.
I thought Obama was the one who revolution Campaigning eight years ago.
I was wrong. That was only temporary fluke and a perfect storm.
This is the America we live in. Dominated by Trump's brash, but ultimately...vindicated behavior.
The republic deserves better.
New Survey coming this weekend!
A more apt comparison would be people who hate Jews and people who hated Germans for what they did to the Jews. I don't think that's quite what's happening, though there was some very worrying posts in this thread right after it became clear Trump was going to win.
edited 9th Nov '16 2:56:47 PM by CaptainCapsase
I'm also concerned about the demoralizing effect this might have on the midterms in 2018.
The apathy...