The General US Politics Thread

I think all of you are missing Bense's point.

Cry, and scream bigot all you want, clearly that did not affect the people that would ordinarily vote Democrat; instead, those same people voted Republican.

And to simply hand-wave it away with "lol, yur a bigot" won't get you very far, anywhere.

Unless you're going to try to claim that people who used to vote Democrat consistently were secretly bigoted all along. There's more to it than simply racism, and it's doing a disservice to those people to ignore their own points.

edited 9th Nov '16 1:17:12 PM by hardcorefakes

We seem to be avoiding that so far, Trump's victory speech wasn't the one he will have wanted to give, it's the one the Establishment Republicans wanted him to give and he gave it.

So that's our hope, that Pence can keep Trump under control for two years until the mid terms, when the Dems should make a comeback because as of inauguration day everything bad is the Republicans fault, because they control the entire federal government.

Well yeah a lot of them kinda were, they voted for Obama in spite of him being black, not because of it.

edited 9th Nov '16 1:19:54 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

We're not being "zero tolerance".

We're simply refusing to refrain from calling out what we see when we see it. "Telling it like it is" is what people want, right? Isn't honesty the best policy?

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you

Amen.

I have a very solid understanding of them thank you very much. These are people I call my friends and colleagues. I am in a sea of them. They are the air I breathe and the water I drink. They have stressed again and again that they don't care about any of the issues I bring up against Trump.

I live in Alabama. I used to BE one of them. I have no sympathy for the bigot I was, and I have no sympathy for the bigots they still are now.

edited 9th Nov '16 1:21:27 PM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you

I don't think they move that fast, but check out their statement from the beginning of the year. They kept it at three minutes because "since recent progress in the Iran nuclear agreement and the Paris climate accord “constitute only small bright spots in a darker world situation full of potential for catastrophe.”

Everything that's happened in 2016 since hasn't been particularly encouraging. Still, I think they're probably going to see what the first few months in office are like, at least.

Honestly, this is not even about left or right...this is about a population actually voting a incompetent rich idiot who lied his way through the election campaign and showed neither respect nor any understanding for the concept of a lawful election and democracy into a position of power. Who wants a guy who constantly screws over his contractors in control over his fate? Who wants a guy who has gone bankrupt multiple times and walked away leaving his workers in the lurch while he got richer and richer in control over the finances of the state? Who wants to confirm that someone who basically says that he can do whatever he wants is actually right with this assessment that you can get away with anything if you just rich and bolt enough (as well as white and male, naturally)?

That is what stumps me about the whole thing. I mean, here in Germany, the Af D is also on the rise...but polls show that only 4% would have actually elected Trump due to his questionable character.

x5 Maybe not you specifically, but at least a few people in this thread said that rural white voters deserve to rot and the Democrats should punish them by refusing to help them anymore and abandon them completely because of their bigotry, when economic disenfranchisement played a not insignificant role in pushing many of them to vote for Trump.

And more importantly, as this election showed, they're still too powerful to dismiss entirely and try to bank on the support of everyone else.

edited 9th Nov '16 1:23:37 PM by AlleyOop

@Silasw

And plenty voted for him because he was black; are those same people not "bigoted"?

What's your point here? Because it goes two ways here.

I don't think everyone who supported Trump is a bigot but I do feel pretty comfortable in thinking that anyone here whose take away is that Democrats lost because they were too pro minority is probably a bigot.

More generally I do agree with treating Trump voters/Republicans like human beings but it would be nice if they returned the favor toward the rest of us.

In the long term, unless technology makes leaps and bounds that are highly unlikely, the withdrawal of the US from the Paris accords will make a disaster almost unavoidable.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

N o.

edited 9th Nov '16 1:24:34 PM by unnoun

A problem is when some people have bigotry but don't notice/care. Some people have a lot of nerve saying that they're not racist or misogynist or whatever when they are but are oblivious to it somehow.

I liked it better when Questionable Casting was called WTH Casting Agency

One can understand such people while still calling them racist bigots.

I get it, they cared more about their own (perceived) economic self interest and giving the establishment the middle finger then they did about preventing racism and bigotry. They were still okay with bigotry and racism when they voted democrat, they're voting based on (perceived) self interest and if we can make that (perceived) self interest line up with fighting racism and bigotry that's a win for us, but it's not why they're voting our way.

I understand such people, I understand that we have to win over such people, I understand why they feel the way they do. I also understand that they are bigoted for being willing to tolerate such racism and bigotry. Doesn't mean I intend to stop trying to help them and win them over, but it's still true.

I mean yes some of them will be, if they voted for him because they hate white people then yeah that's bigoted.

edited 9th Nov '16 1:26:25 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

Oh. I don't sympathize with that at all. I also don't particularly have hope that they will come around. I will not stand in the way of anyone's efforts to bring them around, though I will confess that I will likely deem them to have an excess of either courage or naivete.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you

White people don't have a monopoly on bigotry btw.

Washington's thoughts on Political Parties seem pretty dead on to me these days. He thought they were generally motivated to bloat in power, and take revenge against their opponents when they win. And that this constant fighting between them justs end up preventing the government from being able to work. In this case I think a lot of Trump votes were petty revenge votes.

edited 9th Nov '16 1:28:02 PM by xanderiskander

No, but they have the lion's share.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you

@Alley Oop

No we haven't. We've said rural white voters have consistently rejected policies that would help them if said policies will also help minorities. You can't help people who don't want help.

All right, my anger aside, what I was trying to say is that there are some concerns that are simply inviolable if we're to consider ourselves a just society — racial equality is one. So when someone says, "I don't care, I'm voting Trump" or "I know perfectly well; I'm still voting Trump," then the reasons they give simply don't matter. If they build a new America on the backs of brutalized minorities, they simply don't deserve to sleep soundly and live well within it.

I'm fine with sweetening our rhetoric to entice their reentry into the Democratic fold, and I do think we have to aggressively pursue a more equitable economic policy, but I'll never forget their treachery.

edited 9th Nov '16 1:28:42 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

Can't the US rejoin the Paris Accords after Trump's presidency is up? (Assuming he actually goes through with that plan)

edited 9th Nov '16 1:27:52 PM by Bat178

A lot of Brexit voters were petty revenge voters not motivated by any particular hatred of foreigners, just a total willingness to allow others to hurt foreigners if it meant they got their petty revenge.

You guys will see the same rise in hate crime that we saw, probably worse to be honest.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

Paris was probably the last chance.

Last light American voters decided to begin nailing shut the coffin of our only biosphere.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

RE: The Paris Accords

According to The Guardian, the international community can put pressure on the US government, at least. But outside of the accords, Trump's campaign promises have the potential to cause a lot of damage, especially with regards to dirty energy.

The satellite radio station in the cafeteria keeps playing really peppy, hopeful music. With lyrics like "this world is gonna pull through/don't give up/you've got a reason to live." I see what they're doing.

A close friend called me saying she gave away all of her hijab and won't ever identify as Muslim and now will wear a Christian cross...

I can't right now

New Survey coming this weekend!