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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#152352: Nov 9th 2016 at 10:56:57 AM

There was an article a while back about how rural whites were in nihilistically bad, desperate conditions. So yeah I'm sure a lot of this was just fear.

I'd feel sorry for them if they weren't at a fault for constantly keeping supporting policies that make their own lives more miserable. Against social security measures, against national wide healthcare, voting into office politicians supporting trickle down economics, fostering anti-intellectualism thus leaving them in a poverty trap and clinging to a lifestyle that is no longer viable.

They dug their own graves and are trying to drag everyone else with them to it.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#152353: Nov 9th 2016 at 10:57:02 AM

Many of our current problems are, I believe, connected to a federal government that tries to do too much, and I feel that in many ways we would be much better off if State government became more relevant again, and in fact took back some of the power they have let the Federal government improperly take.

It is the state government where your votes really count the most, and it is the state government who is most accountable to you.

Frankly, I don't want a more direct democracy. A republic with a proper balance between federal and state governments works much better at preserving the rights of the little guy, especially in the more sparsely-populated states, like where I live.

Oh, and I wouldn't have had a problem with the Electoral college if Clinton had won the Electoral College but lost the popular vote.

edited 9th Nov '16 10:59:50 AM by Bense

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#152354: Nov 9th 2016 at 10:57:40 AM

Here's a good Ted Kennedy quote that I think encapsulates the attitude we need to take in the current predicament.

For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#152355: Nov 9th 2016 at 10:58:11 AM

Organizing labor isn't going to work. GOP is going to repeal the National Labor Relations act and probably ban union activity for good measure (can't ban unions for first amendment free exercise, but you can sure as hell outlaw work stoppages and industrial action).

I guess i can't stay away from this thread. It'll take me a while to get over this depression.

But, no hyperbole, we're going to see a whirlwind of regressive legislation next year. By December 2017, we will no longer have:

The Affordable Care Act. (repeal and... what was that second part again?)
The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
LGBT service in the military (we'll be begging to go back to DADT at that point, they're going to push it back to the original status quo ante: find the queers and discharge them).
The Department of Education
The Department of Energy
The Environmental Protection Agency
The Dodd-Frank Act
Just to name a few.

Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#152356: Nov 9th 2016 at 10:58:19 AM

Well, there were riots in the West Coast last night. I'm only half-right, since I called the riots but I thought they'd be the result of Trump supporters.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#152357: Nov 9th 2016 at 10:58:20 AM

Again, you are arguing for something that's in favor of taking power AWAY from the little guy.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#152358: Nov 9th 2016 at 10:58:54 AM

Harriet Tubman: "I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more, if they knew they were slaves".

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#152359: Nov 9th 2016 at 10:59:10 AM

Okay, you don't need to be a bigot to support Trump, but it shows that bigoted views aren't necessarily a deal breaker. And it also shows that those who want more factory jobs, just like tin the "good old days," don't care all that much about social issues.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#152360: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:00:03 AM

@Ogodei: If we're lucky the health insurance companies might lobby for the ACA, since they've benefited from it.

In any case, at least some of those have a lot of social inertia behind them that make them difficult to get rid of, so taking it as a given that all of those things will happen is a bit extreme.

edited 9th Nov '16 11:01:16 AM by AceofSpades

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#152361: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:02:48 AM

ACA is doomed, lobby or no. Ideological zeal will override everything on this issue.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#152362: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:05:32 AM

Trump brought a lot of "disillusioned" (white nationalists/sympathizers) white voters who had never voted in years behind him

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#152363: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:12:41 AM

So. There's a lot of Blame being spread around out there. I thought I'd take a moment to go over people who shouldn't be blamed.

  • Third party voters. People who voted who Johnson probably mostly had Trump as their second choice. That's probably not the case for Stein, but her supporters wouldn't have made a difference.
  • The Democrats. They clearly made a mistake or two somewhere. But don't blame people who are on your side of making mistakes, blame the enemy for beating them. And as to what mistakes they made? Nothing to do with Bernie, if you ask me. The mistake that cost them this was getting cocky in the final stretch. Remember how Nate Silver was urging caution; and how his model was giving Trump a fair chance despite that meaning he broke with all the other models, and we all decided to not believe him, and say 'oh, well, he's been biased towards the GOP all season'- Remember how we all suddenly decided to stop taking his word as gospel once he started saying things we didn't like? That's kind of cockiness I mean. The same cockiness let Trump sneak up to the Firewall and grab it out from under them. But, but, that's playing Monday Morning Quarterback. It's easy to say what they should've done when we have hindsight telling us exactly what the problems would be. Let's not blame the people who put their entire career on the line to beat Trump. They were trying a hell of a lot harder to beat him than any of us were.
  • On a similar vein, but it bears emphasizing: Hillary Clinton isn't to blame. And Bernie Sanders isn't either. Hillary won the popular vote. It's not her fault the FBI and Wikileaks manufactured a bullshit scandal that ruined her public perception. And it's naive to think they wouldn't have done the same to Bernie. It's even more naive to think they couldn't have found ammunition with ease. And Bernie, for his part, did everything he should've. He saw his ambition get blown to the forefront on the same anti-establishment wind that propelled Trump, and challenged Hillary in a primary that would've otherwise been a shut-out. But when he began to wane, he dropped out and immediately endorsed Hillary.

So, y'know, let's not turn against our allies or neutral parties.

edited 9th Nov '16 11:18:16 AM by Gilphon

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#152364: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:12:44 AM

I am glad I do not own a gun right now.

George III must be laughing from beyond the grave.

'President Donald Trump.'

Good luck.

edited 9th Nov '16 11:14:03 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#152365: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:13:17 AM

Dammit, even horrible policies aside, it's gonna be a looooong four years of seeing that blowhard's face plastered all over Google News every day, with story after story of him insulting people on Twitter at 3 AM. Give me strength.

edited 9th Nov '16 11:17:25 AM by speedyboris

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#152366: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:15:22 AM

[up][up][up]Agreed. The one thing the Democrats should not do is eat each other.

edited 9th Nov '16 11:15:35 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#152367: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:15:51 AM

I used to wonder what the hell Cyberpunk writers were smoking. Now that I see this relic of The '80s rule the world, I suddenly see their point.

Is there a plausible path from today's situation to Snow Crash?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#152368: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:16:12 AM

Okay, I never thought I'd return here seriously but here goes:

This isn't as bad as we thought. Here's why:

- Most of the precedents of this election mirror 1976, another year in which a populist upstart came from behind in the primaries against the establishment wishes and in that same year, the opposition was a moderate that barely fended off a challenge from a dismissed extremist. If trump really is unpopular from the get-go on both sides and was just a nose-hold vote, he will have the exact same problems with Congress Carter had and get little done. This means in 4 years, he's likely a dead-man.

- A recession is likely to come back soon, with Clinton out of the way, all blame will go to the GOP and trump. All the next challenger has to do is ask "are you better off now than you were four years ago. Was Obamacare really that bad?". 2020 being a rebuke would mean the Democrats do likely take back Congress and pretty much everything that was expressed by Bernie will likely become agenda.

- Given how Arizona, Georgia, record turnout in Florida, even Texas ftm, and the problems in North Carolina it's pretty clear that the right type of candidate in 2020 could very well capitalize and steal them from Republicans, negating the Midwest gains that threw this to trump now.

- Even with the big 2010-2014 redux that occurred, minimum wage and most weed laws passed, all the Senate gains Democrats did make were women, two of whom were minorities. And if things hold in NC, it sends a message that transphobia is no longer acceptable.

- Even with the electoral victory, he still lost the popular vote. A wave like this, the surrounding things like Iceland or Brexit should've suggested a popular victory.

It'll be a sucky 4 years, and Democratic defeat taking from victorious monstrous jaws could still happen, but this is likely a blessing in disguise if all cards are played right. And for Trump's target, this is likely a Pyrrhic Victory.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#152369: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:17:21 AM

I'm thinking that we get Deus Ex at best.

At worst we get Fall Out, with less wackiness.

[up]I hope you are right. Truly.

edited 9th Nov '16 11:18:59 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#152370: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:18:35 AM

From the Cracked thread: Don't panic

Inter arma enim silent leges
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#152371: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:18:45 AM

[up][up][up]All this assumes Trump doesn't pass laws in office to ensure he wins next time. And I don't mean declaring himself dictator. A nice wave of voter disenfranchisement will do it nicely.

edited 9th Nov '16 11:18:54 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#152372: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:19:00 AM

My environmental chemistry prof ended class early today, said he wasn't concentrating properly because: "I didn't sleep too much last night for one reason or another..." Same.

Guess he remembered they're going to dismantle EPA, and quite probably the Paris accords, too.

Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#152373: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:19:18 AM

Yep, this is a Pyrrhic Victory to the max. I like how Republicans are saying that the Democratic party is finished and we're OMG SORE LOZURZ, but the joke's on them since the Republican party has embarrassed the US so heinously in the eyes of THE REST OF THE WORLD.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#152374: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:22:26 AM

Losing twice didn't spell the end of the Republican party, so anyone claiming the end of the Democrats is... not using logic and is being a sore winner.

Regardless, this is going to be a rough four years.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#152375: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:22:53 AM

So I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Elizabeth Warren running in 2020. Unless another front runner emerges I'm gonna pull for her.


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