Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I mean, in the 30s you might have thought that military mail delivery guy and failed painter =/= dictator.
Hindsight.
Like, my point is that there were people who said the exact same thing about Hitler.
Who didn't believe that the concentration camps were real, because he'd never do that.
edited 9th Nov '16 7:45:57 AM by unnoun
The ironic thing about Trump's victory is that ethnic minorities will now become persuaded that race-relations are indeed truly a "zero-sum game", and that anything a blonde, blue-eyed white person does or says is to be suspect. I've literally have had foreign student friends who just received phone calls from their parents to "be extra careful" around white people.
To me, Trump is more bark than bite. He says a lot of nasty things, but I don't think he'll actually act on most of them. He's probably just going to let Pence and the GOP do what they want, which in and of itself wouldn't be good either, but at least it's not as bad as enacting Trump's actual supposed 'policies.'
So here's something I've been thinking RE the future of the Democratic Party as well as my thoughts on the "Bernie would have won" idea.
So although I think that he still had issues that would have sunk him, I'm willing to allow the possibility because he did do really well in Michigan. The main thing that turned me against Sanders early on is that he basically seemed to be arguing that the Democratic Party should drop all of its social and racial justice priorities in order to win white voters.
And maybe that would have worked, because even with a drop in minority votes, that would have been enough to put Sanders/whoever over. Thing is though, I don't think I'd want to belong to that political party. I mean part of it is that I have different priorities on economic issues that Sanders, but a big part of it also is that while I've been pleased with the Democratic Party embrasing social and racial justice, we're still talking about small steps. Like specifically, the discussion of police shootings has been fairly tepid- and understandably so because even those tepid discussions provoke huge backlash.
And with this in mind, I'm (we're) supposed to accept the conclusion that the problem with the Democrats is that they pushed too much in these areas? Especially when the opposing candidate was openly bigoted in every way and won.
Edit- On a related issue, alhtough I doubt strongly this is the "only" reason Clinton lost, especially since she might have slightly won the popular vote, but like the VRA wasn't in force this time around and there was tons of voter suppression. Don't know how that can be fixed going forward under a Trump presidency, but I do know that it doesn't help to ignore the issue and insist that it all comes down to Clinton's unpopularity coupled with the idea that the Dems pushed civil rights "too much" on the country.
edited 9th Nov '16 7:48:50 AM by Hodor2
Kanye/warren 2020? Make american not terrible again!
Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
x11 When you compare his speeches vs Hitler or Mussolini, they sound saner than Trump.
Hitler started out with the 'thrown them out' forced deportation and started up the camps to do just that, the final solution was just 'better' in his eyes. Trump might actually try and start that slippery slope.
edited 9th Nov '16 7:48:24 AM by Memers
It's worth mentioning that that's actually one of the most popular reasons Trump supporters that I know have given for their choice.
"Oh, Trump's just talking for the sake of getting popular support. He'll leave the actual policymaking to his lieutenants like JFK did. Versus Hillary, who'd actually see through things herself to increase her personal power."
edited 9th Nov '16 7:48:49 AM by FluffyMcChicken
@hardcore: and all those folks thought trump would lose. We've reached peak irrational; abandon all models, ye who enter here
Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?Okay, guys, hardcorefakes has a point. A lot of you are starting to sound like reactionary conspiracy theorists. I may actually have to take a break from this thread, because right now, there's too much doomsaying and Wild Mass Guessing for my tastes.
edited 9th Nov '16 7:51:04 AM by kkhohoho
@hodor: I think the postmortem will conclude that Hillary's alienation of the rust belt was what destroyed her chances and that appealing doesn't require being racist. My crystal ball says there'll be a lot more protectionism and promises of getting all those new fancy renewable jobs tucked away in the rust belt in 2020.
Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?hardcokefakes: Hitler didn't just start rounding up the Jews. It was a gradual process.
We're already seeing it. Including the obvious "random yahoo wins thanks to populism", Trump supports stop and frisk and taking legal guns from people if they "look suspicious." Stop and frisk disproportionally affects minorities and we basically know that the 2nd Amendment only applies to white people in this country.
And keep in mind, Hitler made illegal for Jews to own guns in 1938.
Will we have another "Final Solution"? Most likely no, but I'm going to be cautious.

You've clearly never worked for one, have you?
Corporate owners are KING in their domain. Now Trump's domain is all of fucking America
Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you