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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#151701: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:26:21 AM

[up] They cant fight it, the only "fight" ammercia allows is this, elections.

Its over, they could take away every right a citizen has and there is nothing they could do any more.

Not that there going to go that far, but it is going to be BAD.

Yes, the biggest fear is removing rights for minorities, which they might actually be able to do with full control of all three branches of government. For example, they could potentially overthrow certain Supreme Court decisions or implement new laws explicitly allowing states to discriminate in certain ways.

These are things they've actually been trying to do for a while now, so it's not exactly just a hypothetical.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:28:09 AM by Clarste

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#151702: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:26:32 AM

[up][up][up] This is the first time I believe it myself, though.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:26:46 AM by Swanpride

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#151703: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:27:41 AM

Trump has vowed to put anti-abortion justices on the Supreme Court, I know that much. Civil liberties are going to take a lot of hits.

God damnit, we were doing okay, too...

It's been fun.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#151704: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:27:57 AM

[up]x4 It's not a coincidence that things started moving in this direction with the Civil Rights Act.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:28:19 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#151705: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:28:37 AM

Regarding the left's failure to supress Republican voters: playing fair doesn't work when your opponent always cheats.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#151706: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:29:14 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]You can bet your ass voting restriction and suppression will be implemented on a wider scale.

That's why I never liked actually the accelerationism I've heard from some on the left. Because the boot will come down. HARD.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:29:56 AM by Eschaton

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#151707: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:30:29 AM

[up] "imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever."

Disgusted, but not surprised
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#151708: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:31:27 AM

I need some kind of reassurance here. I usually have a talent for optimism, but here I'm struggling a bit. I don't want to be a doom-mongerer because A) it makes me feel like shit, and B) it's kind of an oversaturated market right now. I want to have something good to say to my friends, family and work colleagues. Can someone give me some kind of reassurance here?
Well, the biggest hope is that the inherent slowness and inefficiency of the American federal system, such as how any member of the Senate (the upper house of Congress) may perform a filibuster, which is when a Senator (or group thereof) exercises their Senatorial right to speak on the Senate floor for as long as they damn well please, putting a halt to all other deliberation or voting unless the opposition can muster a three-fifths supermajority to put a halt to all discussion and just get on with the vote. Another example is that it is very difficult to overturn Supreme Court precedent, even for future courts with different makeups, as the Supreme Court then has to justify why the older ruling no longer stands.

Also, while he's a petty madman, I think he's still sane enough to want to keep living, so he's unlikely to launch nukes, provided that he can grasp that other countries will retaliate.

And since he's already 70 and the Presidency is a notoriously stressful job, he has higher than average odds of dying of natural causes while in office. That said, this isn't as good as it sounds, because if thin-skinned fascist Donald Trump dies, we get theocratic Veep Mike Pence as our President and High Inquisitor.

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#151709: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:31:38 AM

Will an extreme demagogue of the left appear after this?

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#151710: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:31:39 AM

Foreign Policy Argument: China Just Won The U.S. Election

The election of Donald Trump will be a disaster for anyone who cares about human rights, U.S. global leadership, and media freedom. That means it’s a victory for Beijing, where as I write, the Chinese leaders near me in the palatial complex of Zhongnanhai are surely cracking open the drinks and making mean jokes.

There are four major victories for the Chinese leadership here, tempered by one possible fear. The first victory is the obvious one, the geopolitical victory; China no longer faces the prospect of Hillary Clinton, a tough, experienced opponent with a record of standing up to bullies. Instead, it faces a know-nothing reality TV star who barely seems aware that China has nuclear weapons, has promised to extort money from U.S. allies around China like South Korea and Japan, and has repeatedly undercut U.S. credibility as a defense partner. Trump is also exactly the kind of businessman who is most easily taken in by China — credulous, focused on the externalities of wealth, and massively susceptible to flattery. A single trip, with Chinese laying on the charm, could leave him as fond of China’s strongmen as he is of Russia’s Putin.

Countries like Vietnam, Myanmar, and the Philippines, uncertain about who to back in the contest for power in the Pacific, will swing massively China’s way, preferring a country that keeps its promises to one that can turn on the pull of an electoral lever. The strongest U.S. allies, Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan, no longer confident in the U.S. nuclear umbrella, will begin seriously considering other alternatives — like acquiring their own nuclear deterrent, prompting new tensions with China.

But generally, these developments will only embolden China. After the 2008 financial crisis, Beijing was convinced the world was going its way, resulting in a spate of overconfident military moves in southeast Asia which pushed some countries more firmly into the U.S. camp. Now China’s confidence will return, and few in the region will have confidence in Washington’s ability to provide shelter from China’s nascent hegemony. Taiwan, already facing tough mainland rhetoric after electing anti-Beijing leader Tsai Ing-wen, will feel completely isolated — and perhaps be vulnerable to actual invasion — without the firm promise of U.S. protection.

The second victory is in the contest between authoritarianism and democracy. From a Chinese point of view, an electoral system that produces somebody like Trump — utterly inexperienced in governance but a skilled demagogue — is an absurdity, the equivalent of picking a major company’s CEO through a horse race. In China, leaders need to be carefully chosen, groomed, and pushed, gaining experience at every level of the Communist Party system before being anointed for the top job. (That comes amid a flurry of brutally nasty and corrupt internal struggles at each level, mind you.)

China aspires toward the Singaporean model of carefully controlled elitism, a country in which Trump represents, in the words of one writer, everything they were taught to fear about democracy. The crudity of Trump’s triumphant campaign gives credence to Chinese media’s criticisms of a “chaotic political farce.” The likely split between the popular vote and the Electoral College will only further the often-made case that U.S. democracy is a sham.

Trump himself has given every sign of governing like the authoritarian leaders China has favored from Myanmar to Zimbabwe. Every piece of paranoid security theater he has threatened, from a ban on Muslim immigration to the wall with Mexico, will be used by Beijing to justify its own myriad oppressions.

That leads to the third victory, on human rights. Every year, the United States puts out a report on China’s human rights calamities — and every year China responds with its own report, a mixture of indignant bluster and genuine poking at American sore spots, from police treatment of minorities to the gender gap in pay. But under President Trump, Beijing’s stockpiled ammunition against U.S. hypocrisy on human rights looks set only to grow, given his close ties to white nationalist groups, the likely gutting of civil rights, and his — and his supporters’ — attacks on the notion of press freedom. Any Western attempts to call out China’s reassertion of traditional patriarchy, from the arrest of the Feminist Five to the Communist Party’s absence of female leaders, can be countered with any number of references to the new groper-in-chief. Resurgent Republican homophobia will be a gut blow to China’s gay rights movement. Calls for transparency in China’s military spending and local government budgets can be met by pointing out the victory of a candidate who never even bothered to release his tax records. Racist violence, judging by the experience of Brexit and the composition of the Trump base and rhetoric, may see horrifying new peaks, which would give a brutal new credibility to the old Soviet whataboutism whenever they were challenged on the gulag: “But in America, you lynch Negroes.”

That’s assuming a Trump administration would even press China on human rights at all. Given Trump’s often-expressed admiration for dictators ranging from Saddam Hussein to Vladimir Putin, and his call for isolationism in foreign affairs, China might find itself with a reliably quiet White House that would turn a blind eye to crackdowns in Xinjiang — or even Hong Kong.

And finally, the fourth victory is on media credibility. The almost unanimous condemnation of Trump by newspapers from across the political spectrum — to tragically little effect on the voters — will strengthen the case made by Chinese state media that Western media is biased and elitist.

When China wants to bash Trump, on the other hand, they’ll point to the failure of TV news to call out his myriad failings.

Those are contradictory criticisms of Western media, of course, but Chinese state media has never balked at hypocrisy, so expect both points to sometimes be made in the same article. (China has been quite happy bashing both the shortsightedness of referenda and the corruption of the EU over Brexit, for instance.) Secondly, the failure by pollsters — even Nate Silver, though laudably uncertain compared to others, had Clinton as two-to-one favorite — will be used by China to cast doubt on the claims of experts across Western newspapers.

But there’s one major worry that may mute the celebrations in Zhongnanhai. Although China regularly trashes the US, the country’s growth has been dependent, ironically enough, on a strong, stable and prosperous United States willing to trade with the world. Globalization, as Chinese authors have repeatedly argued in the last few months, is vital for a country that needs the markets of others to keep pushing its population into the middle class and achieve the dream of being a “moderately prosperous” country by 2020.

If Trump actually follows through on his protectionist plans, and his decisions have the same effect on the United States as they have on his many failed businesses, China’s own economy, already quivering, will start to shake. Beijing’s ambitious plans to develop other global trade networks through the “One Road, One Belt” scheme may be able to compensate for that — or may prove just as unstable in a rudderless world. China and the United States have often been compared to the two wings of the global economy; if one goes, they spiral down together.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#151711: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:34:13 AM

You know, I had a feeling this was inevitable. If Clinton got through instead, the 'Trump moment' would just be delayed for another four years. I mean, there's never been a successful presidential candidate like him. I'm probably going to regret saying this, but perhaps the next four years will constitute a much-needed lesson to a good chunk of the US, once Trump does whatever bone-headed thing he's planning.

Honestly, though, I'm still hoping that his election rhetoric was just that - rhetoric - intended to get him into office, and once things settle down he'll start flip-flopping again. He's a businessman who's clearly very good at selling himself, but actually holding political office is a completely different field. I wouldn't be surprised if he's silently panicking right now.

I'm reminded of that Cracked video I saw which depicted the Trump campaign as being started as a joke by two college-aged guys which blew rapidly out of proportion, and whenever they phoned the man himself he was crying and whimpering ineligibly. :V

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#151712: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:34:54 AM

The lesson of tonight is that middle aged white men are still numourus enough to push an election one way or the other.

This is gonna be a depressing four years, well maybe two years if the Dems win big in 2018, but for that to happened we'd probably have to see either: a gigantic economic collapse following Trump taking office, a bloody war (probably with Iran) that kills many American servicemen and women, or Trump getting impeached after going full crazy and doing something like getting caught raping someone in the White House.

None of which sound nice, all of which don't actually sounds entirely impossible though.

I just hope that the secret service actually have a plan for if Trump tries to randomly nuke a country because he doesn't understand that that shit has real consequences.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:37:05 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#151713: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:35:53 AM

@Pushover

Then a better system should be set up to catch them with their hands in the proverbial cookie jar.

This is the first time I believe it myself, though.
Fear is infectious, whether it's understandable or not.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:37:18 AM by nervmeister

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#151714: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:35:55 AM

What would, theoretically of course, happen if both Donald Trump and Mike Pence were to be offed?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#151715: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:37:09 AM

[up] Paul Ryan as Speaker of the House is next in line. Which doesn't sound so bad now.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:37:31 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#151716: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:37:22 AM

[up][up]We would get the Speaker of the House, or Not Ryan since he's likely to be sacked.

In other words, another Trumpeter.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:37:31 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#151717: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:37:31 AM

We'd get president Paul Ryan.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#151718: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:38:09 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]Any system you can set up will have the same flaw: you have people running it.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:38:21 AM by Ramidel

chartoc Since: Apr, 2010
#151719: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:38:17 AM

Sorry I got to rant. STOP CRYING! Sorry for yelling. He has to obey the constitution. The sun is still here and we can limit him. Beside if you are wishing for death on him you are acting the radical Trump supporters right now. Be better. Forgive me.

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#151720: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:38:23 AM

There is a succession plan placed in the constitution.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#151721: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:38:32 AM

Will an extreme demagogue of the left appear after this?
I certainly hope not. There are concerning elements of the far left that have not had political power, and I don't want them to. I'm still not sure what that would even look like.

But this not going be a healthy political environment.

On the other hand, a Democrat who wielded some amount of, essentially "moral" authority, who stood up to things like the Dakota Access Pipeline unilaterally, would be something a lot of people would welcome.

One thing I could appreciate about Clinton was that she at least understood complexity and nuance. But it worked against her. Take fracking for example. The wikileaks info showed she was taking the approach that there was an acceptable type of fracking, and an unacceptable type of fracking. The stance that there is no right kind of fracking is something she would never consider. And people want leadership, not triangulation.

You know, I had a feeling this was inevitable. If Clinton got through instead, the 'Trump moment' would just be delayed for another four years.
I agree. I thought it would be the next election where the Rust Belt went Brexit. I was wrong.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:41:50 AM by Eschaton

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#151722: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:39:01 AM

@Pushover

Then a better system should be set up to catch them with their hands in the proverbial cookie jar.

It's kind of hard, when they control so much of the government. Obama notoriously had to deal with a Congress that tried to stop him at any turn. Why in the world would these people vote into law measures that might reduce their own power?

edited 9th Nov '16 2:39:40 AM by Clarste

chartoc Since: Apr, 2010
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#151724: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:39:57 AM

@Ramdiel

May as well give it a shot, tho.

[up][up]To keep their political opponents from doing it to them. It favors neither side.

edited 9th Nov '16 2:42:40 AM by nervmeister

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#151725: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:41:11 AM

@Pushover: See here for the full presidential line of succession.

For a recent example of this coming up in media, the main character of Designated Survivor was 12th in line.


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