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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#148551: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:08:36 PM

So, um...

Look, I know some people here are not fond of Chelsea Manning, and from what little I remember about the reasons given, I think I understand why.

That said...can we at least agree that she doesn't deserve to be treated like this? Because if we don't automatically accept the story she gives here, there have to be better ways to treat a prisoner who's apparently a suicide risk.

edited 4th Nov '16 7:09:29 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#148552: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:15:10 PM

plus I think there would be a line even in California

I've never faced a line to vote in CA. Voting by mail is common here, and it's really easy. You just check a box on your voter registration and you get mailed a ballot before each election.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#148553: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:20:47 PM

[up][up]She deserves treatment and protection, like any other prisoner. Throwing her in solitary is the wrong route to take. If she's developed a true mental issue (and suicide attempts are a pretty good sign of that...), then she should be moved to a mental health ward for as long as necessary.

edited 4th Nov '16 7:22:50 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#148554: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:21:23 PM

[up]X3 Not everyone can read links...

edited 4th Nov '16 7:24:02 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#148555: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:24:00 PM

Quoting the article:

WASHINGTON — Chelsea Manning tried to commit suicide last month at the start of a week of solitary confinement at the prison barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., that was imposed on her as punishment for a previous attempt to end her life in July. Ms. Manning, the former Army intelligence analyst who is serving a 35-year sentence for leaking archives of secret documents to WikiLeaks, disclosed the attempted suicide, which took place Oct. 4, in a statement she dictated over the phone to a member of her volunteer support network. She asked that it be sent this week to The New York Times, according to members of the network who want to keep their identities private.

Chase Strangio, an American Civil Liberties Union lawyer representing Ms. Manning, formerly known as Bradley Manning, said, “I can confirm there was a second suicide attempt.”

“She asked me to confirm that,” he added.

Mr. Strangio had publicly criticized the Army for saying it was going to put his client in solitary confinement because of her attempted suicide in July, predicting that it could exacerbate her problems. A support network member said Thursday that Ms. Manning had been informed by the Army that it would hold a disciplinary hearing for the second attempted suicide and that she possibly faced new punishment.

An Army spokesman said he was unable to comment or answer any questions about matters covered by medical information privacy rules.

Ms. Manning’s four-page statement said she tried to kill herself on the first night of her week in solitary detention. She was then placed on suicide watch and transferred to a special observation unit, called Alpha Tier, where she continued to be held in solitary confinement, it said.

Most of her statement is devoted to a detailed account of a bizarre sequence of events she said took place several days later.

On the night of Oct. 10, her statement says, four people impersonating guards conducted an hourslong attack on the prison, during which she heard sounds indicating that the attackers were shooting and torturing her cellblock’s actual guards.

These attackers tried to induce Ms. Manning to escape, the statement says, but she did not cooperate. Instead, as the night unfolded, she hid in the corner of her cell, telling the imposters she knew they were not actual guards, it said.

At 6 a.m. on Oct. 11, a regular shift of guards familiar to Ms. Manning arrived, and “everything returned to normal, except that several correctional specialists were deep cleaning the entirety of Alpha tier with Pine Sol and bleach,” the statement concluded.

The Army spokesman denied those events had taken place.

Ms. Manning’s support network also sent The Times a copy of a complaint from her addressed to the Office of the Intelligence Community Inspector General on Oct. 17. The complaint asked the inspector general to investigate Ms. Manning’s claims, saying that the incident had been an intelligence operation intended to torment her psychologically and induce her to commit a crime.

A spokeswoman for the office of the inspector general said it was policy not to comment on the existence or nonexistence of any whistle-blower complaints or investigations.

Ms. Manning, 28, has since been released from the special observation unit and returned to the general inmate population, and can again receive mail and make phone calls. Still, two members of the support network said Ms. Manning had told them that she continued to see the attackers who posed as guards around the prison until Oct. 27.

Mr. Strangio said that Ms. Manning described the same supposed events to him in phone calls and that he “couldn’t comment on any of these experiences because I don’t understand them.”

He added, “I am going to visit her later this month due to continuous concerns that she is not getting the health care she needs.”

Ms. Manning’s 35-year sentence is the longest ever imposed for providing government secrets to the public. The documents she disclosed, which made her a hero to open-government activists, included diplomatic cables from American embassies around the world, incident logs from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, intelligence dossiers about Guantánamo Bay detainees and a video of a helicopter airstrike in Baghdad in which two Reuters journalists were killed. WikiLeaks made them public, working with various news organizations, including The Times.

During Ms. Manning’s trial in 2013, testimony showed that she had been deteriorating, mentally and emotionally, during the period when she downloaded the documents and sent them to WikiLeaks. Then known as Pfc. Bradley Manning, she was struggling with gender dysphoria under conditions of extraordinary stress and isolation while deployed to the Iraq war zone at a time when military rules made being openly gay a ground for discharge without the college tuition benefits that were her prime motive for enlistment.

After her arrest, she was flagged as a suicide risk and held in the jail operated by the Marines in Quantico, Va., under austere conditions the military said were necessary to prevent her from harming herself even after military psychologists said it was no longer necessary, a step her supporters denounced as abuse.

After her conviction, she announced that she wanted to be known as Chelsea Manning and referred to by female pronouns. In 2014, she legally changed her name from Bradley to Chelsea, and she has since been pursuing gender reassignment surgery.

edited 4th Nov '16 7:24:35 PM by rmctagg09

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#148556: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:24:46 PM

Edit: NVM, [nja]'d.

edited 4th Nov '16 7:25:18 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#148557: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:31:52 PM

That makes Manning sound delusional to be honest, a staged breakout attempt? It sounds like paranoid delusions to me. Also considering what we've recently seen out of wikileaks it's kinda hard to see what she did as providing information to the public as opposed to providing it to a foreign state.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#148558: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:32:00 PM

... A lot of people are trying to kill her. She needs to be removed from there. Suicidal tendencies and solitary are a death sentence. Any other abuse she may or may not be getting would only be a cherry on the sadistic sundae.

[up]The sad/scary thing is, a group of guards could gaslight her that way, and most would allow them to get away with it by filing it under a delusional episode. Any time she complains, they have an easy get-out clause: who believes the known crier of wolf? :/

edited 4th Nov '16 7:38:18 PM by Euodiachloris

PinkElephantOnParade Since: Apr, 2016
#148559: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:32:31 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
"I wish that Mark Twain was still alive so that I could say 'oh hai, Mark' to him."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#148560: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:37:12 PM

Yeah as much as I think she sounds delusional on the breakout front that just makes me feel bad for her. She was on her way to breaking psychologically before she went away and none of this will have helped. In the end she doesn't need to be in prison, she needs to be in a secure mental health facility where she can get better.

[up][up] That's a fair point, the mentally ill are incredibly easy to victimise. While I don't seen anything actually sanctioned by anyone happening I could totally see the guards (and prisoners) deciding to fuck with her mentally by staging stuff.

edited 4th Nov '16 7:40:24 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#148561: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:43:07 PM

[up][up]Wikileaks still had the respect of journalists and the more reasonable activists in 2010 and presumably wasn't being exploited by Russia then (they didn't start acting that way till after they made threatening statements toward the Russians) so it's not fair to compare Manning's actions then with their ramifications if they'd happened today.

Also, It's been gathered though publicly available statements that Assange has a Bernie-Bro style of hatred toward Clinton so it is at least possible that they are a stooge rather than a knowing collaborator with Russia.

edited 4th Nov '16 7:47:22 PM by Elle

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#148562: Nov 4th 2016 at 8:20:45 PM

blkwhtrbbt? Overhaul, candle wax? No, I was specifically responding to that post about purging the bureau.

I typed some more stuff, but it appears most of it was typed over the last couple of pages for me while I was gone, so I was wrong in that sense, this group of libs is better than I expected.


Breitbart sounds like a nice place to visit next...I think I've been there before but Paul Ryan being a Democrat plant, I missed that one. They didn't seem like the tinfoil hat types to me if that was indeed the site I was thinking of.

Buldogue's lawyer
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#148563: Nov 4th 2016 at 8:27:11 PM

If by "nice place to visit" you mean "breeding ground for neo nazis", then knock yourself out, champ. I won't miss you.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#148564: Nov 4th 2016 at 8:52:57 PM

this group of libs is better than I expected.

So pleased to have exceeded your expectations. Seriously, there a reason for the snide commentary?

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#148565: Nov 4th 2016 at 9:11:40 PM

Yeah, if you actually want to have reasonable conversations with us, calling us liberals as if it's an insult and making blanket assumptions about us is not going to start you on the right foot.

I'm not even one, strictly speaking.

edited 4th Nov '16 9:14:03 PM by Elle

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#148566: Nov 4th 2016 at 9:16:56 PM

I remember it being hyper Christian, still seems to be that way, now with a Trump donor wall popup. The comment sections have liberal use of "Hitlary" in the negative though. That doesn't give me Nazi vibes. I'd call them the right wing version of Daily Kos, but I think that honor more appropriately goes to Red State, who are not falling inline behind Trump but Evan McMullan.

Actually, Red State reads a little too much like Daily Kos. What's that called, horseshoe theory? But sensationalism and click bait aside, Redstate and Kos are both tolerable. I think I will be staying clear of Breitbart, I forgot all about Ryan until I came back here. I can't read it's content for too long without wanting to go on the attack.

Buldogue's lawyer
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#148567: Nov 4th 2016 at 9:21:30 PM

As if American fascism has ever needed to embrace Hitler himself in order to be a thing. Or do you deny that there is a very Nazi vibe to a website that has, in no particular order, railed against gays, almost all ethnic minorities, and of course, the Jews?

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#148568: Nov 4th 2016 at 9:35:41 PM

Breitbart is home to the "alt right" which is basically a breeding ground for rampant misogyny and conspiracy theories. And their contributors seem to thrive on offending people, as though merely offending people is the same thing as creating something of value.

edited 4th Nov '16 9:37:27 PM by AceofSpades

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#148570: Nov 4th 2016 at 9:41:45 PM

Will America's good name survive 2-16? Democracy in general isn't looking very good now. A lot of places are probably considering the Chinese system.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#148571: Nov 4th 2016 at 9:51:33 PM

There was a decent amount of suspicion around the rape lawsuit. All of these accusations should be taken seriously, and the excuses used against them (like "why take 25 years to come around?) are just the sort of whataboutery used to dismantle claims of sexual harassment or worse, but at the same time her actions have been a little odd.

Unless she got found out and got some savage death threats, but there's no reason to get approval from the judge to go forward and just suddenly drop it out of the blue.

Mr.Didact Keep Hope Alive from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Naked on a bearskin rug, playing the saxophone
Keep Hope Alive
#148572: Nov 4th 2016 at 10:09:37 PM

I honestly would not be surprised to find out that Trump blackmailed her. Not saying he did, but I wouldn't be surprised.

edited 4th Nov '16 10:09:58 PM by Mr.Didact

Stand Fast, Stand Strong, Stand Together
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#148573: Nov 4th 2016 at 10:42:43 PM

Yeah I just kinda assumed she got a ton of death threats, decided that she wouldn't be able to go forward without her name coming out (thus meaning death threats and probably attempts on her life), decided that it wasn't worth the trauma of such a case, was advised that she'd loose a he said-she said fight against Trump, or a lawyer simply advised her that she didn't have a strong enough case (evidence for such a case is probably thin on the ground).

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#148574: Nov 4th 2016 at 11:00:11 PM

Okay...now I'm curious about what Jack said.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#148575: Nov 4th 2016 at 11:33:02 PM

[up] That democracy is failing and more countries are probably thinking about taking the Chinese model.


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