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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#8201: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:24:05 PM

That is why Democrats need to win big in the legislative elections.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#8202: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:34:32 PM

"Lame duck" simply means that he's guaranteed not to be in the Presidency after the next election. So any policies he enacts during his final term will be at the mercy of his successor. Assuming he stays in office in 2012, his legacy will largely be in the hands of whichever party has control of Congress.

Something struck me a few minutes ago — part of the divide between the right and the left in America is that the left does not share the same abiding, almost religious hatred for everything opposing it. For the die-hard conservative, "liberal" is a deadly epithet. They won't consider a Democratic candidate for the simple reason that DEMOCRATZ R EVULZ. You can't argue with that; you can't persuade that.

At least liberals (in my experience, anyway) approach the matter from the perspective of the issues at hand. We don't hate conservatives, but we do hate some of the policies that they stand for. We have an abiding distrust of rich corporate interests, but with good reason. But even when Bush was the target du jour, we didn't hate him personally. That's not the case with Obama versus the right, and it upsets me deeply.

edited 14th Dec '11 2:34:54 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#8203: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:34:48 PM

Which Democrats? Blue dogs and Lieberman types are just as responsible for getting us into this mess.

OWS needs to hit the primaries of both parties something fierce.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
TheatricalAndProud Since: Nov, 2011
#8204: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:38:06 PM

Gingrich is a master mud slinger. He may be able to fool people into thinking Obama is the worst thing to ever happen to America since ever.
He can only preach to the choir, no-one who doesn't want to believe the worst about Obama will listen to him. Cheating on a cancer stricken spouse is one of the worst things you can do and not be locked away, there is no way to reclaim any high ground with that around his neck. If he can't have the high ground, he can't sling mud without it falling well short of the mark.

As for a lame duck presidency you forget. All of the Tea party BS'ers elected in 2010, they have to a man been unbelievable dissappointments, and in more than a few cases, Evil Overlords. There is strong voter backlash against Republicans on that level too.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8205: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:41:05 PM

In a way, the Pubs may have been better off had they not made such staggering gains in 2010.

TheatricalAndProud Since: Nov, 2011
#8206: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:42:52 PM

^^^^ Democrats are intellectual, Republicans are emotional. You can see that in a lot of policy decisions and stances.

Gay marriage - Democrats understand that a persons orientation doesn't change their humanity, and that if two mature humans love each other, they have every right to celebrate this. Republicans feel that gays are icky.

Democrats start with the facts, and find the position. Republicans start with the position and find the "facts".

Hey, am I wrong? What in their behaviour disproves this?

edited 14th Dec '11 2:43:40 PM by TheatricalAndProud

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#8207: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:44:10 PM

I disagree.

Removing Medicare on paper sounds like it would make sense, to the healthcare industry at least, but that ignores the fact that many people would die.

USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#8208: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:44:19 PM

Obama could tear Gingrich to shreds without mentioning his former wives at all.

  • Bringing us to the brink of a new debt crisis almost exactly like today's Tea Party did earlier this year.
  • Impeaching the President of the United States of America over stupid shit that should never have seen the light of day in a courtroom.
  • The Defense of Marriage Act and some of the other stupider things Gingrich got passed back in the '90s (but DOMA can really help solidify the Democrat base).

Interesting thing I found out today: 2010 was the first year in American history that support and opposition for gay marriage was split about 50/50. It's actually a real issue now, and about time, too.

I am now known as Flyboy.
TheatricalAndProud Since: Nov, 2011
#8209: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:46:11 PM

^^ ...hence why its not a good thing intellectually. We are not the borg collective, human lives have worth. The difference is a huge part of the opposition to government health care is from bullshit like "death panels". Emotionally weighted lies.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#8210: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:49:30 PM

Jon Stewart discussed this on his show last week, with an interview that you can find online. The gist of his point was that, the federal government clearly can provide high quality, efficient, inexpensive healthcare through a single payer system. It's called the Veteran's Administration.

Apparently, however, to the right, the idea of government doing something more efficiently than the private sector is anathema. So they have to come up with ideological, rather than fiscal, reasons to oppose it. They can that ideology and sell it by the bucketload, and all the rational people can do is sit back and shake their heads as people lap it up, despite the fact that the direct outcome is to make their lives worse.

edited 14th Dec '11 2:49:50 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#8211: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:53:02 PM

I heard the VA was doing kind of poorly recently. Did it change, or was it because of more "lol defunding government and then claiming it can't do things properly!" bullshit?

I am now known as Flyboy.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#8212: Dec 14th 2011 at 2:53:12 PM

Before the complaints come in, let's clarify: you can find people who hate Republicans that viscerally. But you won't see the Democratic leadership trying to court their votes.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#8213: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:14:49 PM

I have this is on repeat because of SOPA, what do you think it'll do to the elections?

edited 14th Dec '11 3:15:22 PM by Lanceleoghauni

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#8214: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:26:26 PM

George Sanyana said that American ignorance, combined with intense emotional response, is at the root of its idealism.

That sums it up. Republicans are dumb-downed by Fox et. at. and easily-stirred by demagogues. Like Gingrich, who in his blind ambition and zealotry created this partisan madness int he first place.

I'm a skeptical squirrel
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8215: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:30:54 PM

Well gee, maybe if the Demonic Monster of Gingrich is defeated in 2012, we can finally shed a new light into an era of non-partisan politics for a generation to come?

...

Nah.

johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#8216: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:34:46 PM

Yeah, the whole system seems to be cracking up for no discernable reason.

I'm a skeptical squirrel
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8217: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:35:51 PM

We've gone over the reasons before. It's because radical republicans do stupid shit, but then Democrats, regardless of their actual stance, are treated as though they're in the same boat in terms of partisan hackery.

LostAnarchist Violence Is Necessary! from Neo Arcadia Itself Since: Sep, 2011
Violence Is Necessary!
#8218: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:36:14 PM

[up]At this rate, to be truly make our votes mean shit in that regard, we'd have to do a whole lot more than just beat Ging GRINCH!

And there is a lot to fucking do: but it mostly begins with taking down Congress a ton of pegs and getting any form of money (including hourly pay IMHO - because that will teach these scumbags WHO'S THE FUCKING BOSS(ES)) out of government in general.

That, and more people have to start voting. A ton fucking more.

This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8219: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:37:45 PM

It's absolutely ridiculous to think that Congress' wages are the problem.

Indeed, if Congressmen aren't paid, then the only people who can run are people independently wealthy enough that they don't need to hold a job. Not that it isn't like that already.

edited 14th Dec '11 3:38:13 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#8220: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:39:34 PM

The financial benefits of being a Congressman go far beyond their meager salary.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#8221: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:39:48 PM

Lost Anarchist - Y'know, I often wonder why these guys feel such a need to enflame and outrage the public against Democrats. People are disconnected from Washington as it is. If the GOP wanted to stomp all over our wages and civil liberties, what would do about it? Not much. There's no need to raise a rabid army of people who are just as likely to eat Newt Gingrich too.

edited 14th Dec '11 3:40:05 PM by johnnyfog

I'm a skeptical squirrel
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8222: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:40:04 PM

Right, so instead of going after their salary, go after all the other assorted benefits.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#8223: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:55:07 PM

Does anyone think that Ron Paul will win Iowa?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8224: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:56:25 PM

Eh, it's theoretically possible. If Gingrich manages to bomb before Iowa is out, I think it's actually pretty likely.

Now, if Paul does somehow pull off Iowa, I don't think that'll translate into winning the nomination.

edited 14th Dec '11 3:56:53 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#8225: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:59:16 PM

[up]No, but it'll throw out Romney or Gingrich, depending on what happens.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

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