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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#7926: Dec 9th 2011 at 10:07:52 PM

Wow, that has the potential both for great good and for great stupidity.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#7927: Dec 9th 2011 at 10:54:14 PM

The main problem with the line item veto, which I accept if not completely agree with, is that it undermines Congress' Constitutional power to write the laws. Letting the President selectively cut out pieces of legislation means that what he signs is no longer what Congress passed.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#7928: Dec 10th 2011 at 5:59:43 AM

^ And that's why Rehnquist shot it down. Line item veto effectively destroyed the legislative branch.

ZeiqthePyro from La Florida Since: Dec, 2009
#7929: Dec 10th 2011 at 7:08:23 AM

Pretty much, I can't say I disagree with that line of reasoning.

Sometimes, I get so pissed with Congress that a part of me just wants to say 'fuck it'.

Needs Caffeine
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#7930: Dec 10th 2011 at 8:52:56 AM

. Granted, not as quickly or smoothly as I'd like, but I'd place the blame far more on the Republicans, the Blue Dog Caucus, and Joe Lieberman(may his retirement come quickly, the bastard) then on the President.

Definitely, though, as President, Obama has more power to set the narrative. But then again, he's tried doing so a handful of times. I'd re-elect em.

Chalkos Sidequest Proliferator from The Internets Since: Oct, 2010
Sidequest Proliferator
#7931: Dec 10th 2011 at 10:09:50 AM

Yes, that's the problem with the line item veto. Let's suppose Congress passed a reform bill adding restrictions to the legislative and executive branches:

  1. Members of Congress are now forbidden to place sugar in their morning tea.
  2. The President is henceforth never to bathe with a rubber duckie, on pain of death.

Suddenly the President line-item vetoes the restriction on him, and oops, the silly reform bill is gutted.

TheatricalAndProud Since: Nov, 2011
#7932: Dec 10th 2011 at 1:10:45 PM

Given the utterly toxic state of Congress, really its position should be relegated back to simply an advisory role. It serves no useful purpose, and given shit like we just saw, it only serves as a major obstacle to not just progress, but basic functionality.

whaleofyournightmare Decemberist from contemplation Since: Jul, 2011
Decemberist
#7933: Dec 10th 2011 at 1:26:57 PM

What are the GOP's positions on a sudden and violent break up of the Eurozone?

Dutch Lesbian
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#7934: Dec 10th 2011 at 1:42:37 PM

I;m totally fine with the line item veto. Congress has far too much power as it is.

Gingrich is still selling books.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#7935: Dec 10th 2011 at 1:53:23 PM

It is woefully depressing that focusing entirely on selling books doesn't appear to be hurting him at all. Oh well.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#7936: Dec 10th 2011 at 1:57:51 PM

[up] It's because he has immunity as a Republican.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#7937: Dec 10th 2011 at 5:43:32 PM

Given the utterly toxic state of Congress, really its position should be relegated back to simply an advisory role. It serves no useful purpose, and given shit like we just saw, it only serves as a major obstacle to not just progress, but basic functionality.

I've been trying to let stuff like this slide, but I want to ask—who would you have writing the laws?

edited 10th Dec '11 5:44:32 PM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#7938: Dec 10th 2011 at 5:54:28 PM

The problem isn't Congress, and never has been. The problem is the underlying party system, which consolidates political power and makes for easy gridlocks.

I am now known as Flyboy.
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#7939: Dec 10th 2011 at 5:55:56 PM

^ And you won't break that system by advocating more parties just for the sake of more parties. Proportional voting won't break it.

Marketing (and Politics) 101: If a brand has widespread appeal to many segments of the population it will succeed better as a whole than stuff that caters more to specific segments. Meaning trying to split off liberal groups like a Green Party catering to specific causes will only alienate the Democrats and the Greens/other groups provided the Republicans aren't fractured either.

edited 10th Dec '11 5:58:49 PM by MajorTom

USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#7940: Dec 10th 2011 at 6:05:48 PM

Except the Republicans may very well fracture if we had things like proportional representation, as people may start going to the Libertarian Party to avoid the fundies and social authoritarians, not to mention the neoconservatives.

So, I doubt it would only be the liberals who split.

I am now known as Flyboy.
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#7941: Dec 10th 2011 at 6:14:55 PM

Except the Republicans may very well fracture if we had things like proportional representation

That's an incredibly conditional and unlikely if. Republican voters (and campaign folks) ain't dummies unlike what the media and activist groups like to portray them as. They know that broad appeal to the segments aligned with their side wins elections regardless if the voting system is by proportion or by simple majority voting.

In short, your side loses if you split the ticket. We Libertarians hate the fundies and the social authoritarians but they are useful in one regard: assuring that statist liberals who want to reach out and put intrusive government into every aspect of people's lives (well intentioned or otherwise) do not get to pass their agenda.

edited 10th Dec '11 6:16:36 PM by MajorTom

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#7943: Dec 10th 2011 at 6:20:50 PM

In case you didn't pay attention recently they've been getting a serious beating from within lately. The Tea Party did not approve of their expansions of government either. (And I and other libertarians don't as well.)

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#7944: Dec 10th 2011 at 6:36:11 PM

I like how the media's actually doing its job when it comes to the candidates. Hell, Brett Baer of Fox News bewildered Romney during an interview, at one point.

[up] And yet, there's the equally bipartisan SOPA and Defense Authorization Act, both of whom are about to be signed into law.

edited 10th Dec '11 6:37:00 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#7945: Dec 10th 2011 at 6:36:53 PM

Fox News dislikes Romney. Republicans dislike Romney. Why Rove signed on with him is anyone's guess.

USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#7946: Dec 10th 2011 at 6:39:04 PM

@Tom,

The Tea Party are the ones who said they'd loosen their stance against taxes if the liberals reversed their position on allowing women and gays in the military.

Preposterous, I say.

I am now known as Flyboy.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#7947: Dec 10th 2011 at 6:40:55 PM

I think it's because Romney's very much pro-establishment, and likely the most amongst the candidates.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#7948: Dec 10th 2011 at 6:41:25 PM

^^ Citation Needed. And don't pull up some Daily Kos or Moveon.org activist shit. It better be a credible news link.

^ Frankly, I'm not quite sure why Rove chose Romney. (My best guess is year old predictions saying Romney was one of the few contenders estimated to possibly beat Obama.)

edited 10th Dec '11 6:42:29 PM by MajorTom

TheRichSheik Detachable Lower Half from Minnesota Since: Apr, 2010
#7949: Dec 10th 2011 at 6:42:54 PM

[up]Politics 101: News links are only credible if they agree with your position.

Byte Me
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#7950: Dec 10th 2011 at 6:47:55 PM

Obama's just as establishment as Rove and Romney. The Republican Party chose Romney; the Republican voters chose Gingrich. If Romney wins the nomination, it'll prove, even to right-wingers, that this democracy only applies to the rich. If Gingrich wins, it'll prove that there's some democracy left in this inherently corrupt system.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

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