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Ringsea He Who Got Gud from Fly-Over Country,USA Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
He Who Got Gud
#62226: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:20:00 PM

Better us than China or Russia.

The most edgy person on the Internet.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#62227: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:21:05 PM

According to whom? Us? Yeah, that's kind of tautological. I mean, I happen to agree, but on what factual basis does one make that assertion?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
#62228: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:21:15 PM

[up][up][up] I don't know if he was implying we do. Every country has an obligation to work in its own best interests.

edited 27th Aug '13 2:21:39 PM by Robotnik

soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#62229: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:24:24 PM

I was implying that if someone is going to be top dog, you want to be top dog. Currently US, Russia, and China are the three who can be superpowers. I think that India is rising and could be a contender soonish. I'm an American, so I think we are the best. I think someone from Russia or China would think their nation would be the best.

edited 27th Aug '13 2:25:45 PM by soban

Ringsea He Who Got Gud from Fly-Over Country,USA Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
He Who Got Gud
#62230: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:28:52 PM

[up][up][up] Better us than the governments that oppress and murder their people.

The most edgy person on the Internet.
Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
#62231: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:31:36 PM

[up] To be fair, the "oppress" part is debatable. tongue

edited 27th Aug '13 2:31:48 PM by Robotnik

IConfuseMe from Washington, DC Since: Jan, 2010
#62232: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:33:52 PM

Russia is the very definition of a paper tiger. I am tempted to apply the "Sick man of Europe" quote for irony's sake. What power she still has is largely legacy form the days of the Soviet Union. She is doing better than she was, but I wouldn't place her near the very bottom of the potential superpowers list.

Same for India. It has the size and will have the economy but its interior is so underdeveloped I would say is soonish overgenerous.

China is of course a very real plausibility but then, we said the same thing about the Japanese during the 90's. I would also add a EU with a centralized foreign policy.

Truth is, I think the Chinese boogeyman has been a bit overplayed. They are wonderfully business like in their foreign policy. Which is why I don't see them being particularly threatening. It's the ideological ones you have to watch out for.

And since I know someone will say it, probably before I finish typing this, let us not forget. The United States has used her position in the world to kill, other throw governments, institute dictatorships, etc. As has every great power. So before we start throwing that stone, let us remember our house is indeed glass.

[up][up]

See? I knew it.

edited 27th Aug '13 2:34:53 PM by IConfuseMe

soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#62233: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:36:34 PM

Say what you will, America has not murdered large numbers of it's own people in a long time.

IConfuseMe from Washington, DC Since: Jan, 2010
#62234: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:40:34 PM

[up]

I find the ability to murder other people's citizens the far more terrifying prospect when dealing with geopolitics and international relations.

And to be perfectly honest with you I am not very nationalistic. So why I understand that for some people the fact that it wasn't her "own" citizens makes it less of an issue, it just doesn't hold a lot of weight for me.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#62235: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:40:53 PM

Truth is, I think the Chinese boogeyman has been a bit overplayed. They are wonderfully business like in their foreign policy. Which is why I don't see them being particularly threatening. It's the ideological ones you have to watch out for.

Probably — still doesn't mean it's all rose petals out in Africa, though. Then again, the Chinese plan in the long-term. The very long term. Remember how long China has existed as a single country.

Keep Rolling On
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#62237: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:43:01 PM

The key is that Russia is still tops in her ability to Project Force. China's hard power does not extend beyond arm's reach, while Russia still has fleets and such to at least put them on level with the superpower also-rans of Europe (like France and the UK, who are also good with projection even if they're on shakier ground in terms of having the will and strength to field and run a large land war, where China excels).

The only people who have to be scared of China are her neighbors and anyone who would have the idea to invade China proper. Everyone else is comfortably out of her range.

Does Russia punch above its weight? Hell yeah, but a paper tiger she is not. Really, the fact that she could be called such is just an expression of how impassably dominant the US has become.

IConfuseMe from Washington, DC Since: Jan, 2010
#62238: Aug 27th 2013 at 2:55:12 PM

[up]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that much of Russia's military equipment was in severe need of maintenance. Until around, maybe 2010, the fleet and air force were drastically underfunded, with many vessels and vehicles not being up to par. It is only recently flush form energy money that Russia began getting the fleet back into acceptable condition.

As for China, I agree. She doesn't have power projection. But she wants it and is very much investing in gathering it. I'd say China's real handicap is that she has no staunch allies. Her neighbor's (even Russia) range between terrified of her to wary of her. That might change in the future mind you with her many investment projects abroad.

Meklar from Milky Way Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
#62239: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:10:51 PM

Every country has an obligation to work in its own best interests.
That sort of thinking leads to everyone screwing everyone else over in a giant prisoner's dilemma game. If everyone tries to push everyone else down in order to get on top of the pile, the entire pile just gets pushed down.

Join my forum game!
soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#62240: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:14:53 PM

@Meklar, Actually, in a reiterated prisoner's dilemma, the optimal option is tit for tat with forgiveness rather than defect.

In detail, you start with cooperation. If they defect, you also defect until they cooperate, then you start cooperating again. Optimal play is both sides never defecting.

edited 27th Aug '13 3:16:27 PM by soban

RTaco Since: Jul, 2009
#62241: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:23:23 PM

I'm an American, so I think we are the best.

I am also an American, and I do not consider our country even remotely the best (though still currently better than China or Russia).

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#62242: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:34:53 PM

Some sort of Scandinavian Union thing would probably be the best possible world superpower.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#62243: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:36:53 PM

I'm American and I think our country sucks in many ways outside of our ability to kill other people.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#62244: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:38:03 PM

Yeah, whenever surveys and studies are done about standards of living, how happy people are to live there, things like that, Scandinavian countries almost always dominate the top 5. The US tends to be low middle.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#62245: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:41:18 PM

[up] Although it doesn't mean they don't have their fair share of problems — I've heard that immigration is an issue in Scandinavian countries, for example.

Keep Rolling On
kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#62246: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:43:27 PM

I like America but I hold no illusions that we're the best in the world. As someone in the middle class I live a fairly comfortable life but there are tons of people suffering that should not be. I'd say we fall somewhere in the high teens or twenties if we're ranking what country is best to live in overall.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#62247: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:43:44 PM

If Immigration is your country's main cause of concern, you're doing pretty well.

[up]

But our ego is number one. Some humility would be nice for this country. I don't know why we act like we're the best at everything and everyone is just jealous.

I mean people still say "The terrorist hate us because they're jealous of our freedom"

I mean...really?

edited 27th Aug '13 3:44:37 PM by Thorn14

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#62248: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:43:48 PM

[up][up][up]

Low Middle is something of an exaggeration.

We are at least High Middle.

Texas Governor Rick Perry spends thousands on ads to poach Missouri businesses

edited 27th Aug '13 3:52:10 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#62249: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:48:39 PM

The World Economic Forum’s Global Competitiveness Report for 2012-2013 exposes that U.S. infrastructure compares unfavorably with that of most advanced countries and even some developing nations.

The report investigated the quality and availability of roads, railroads, ports, air transport, electricity, and telephones.

In terms of overall infrastructure, the U.S. ranks 25th, behind nations such as Oman and Barbados, and only one spot ahead of Qatar.

The World Health Organization (WHO) ranked the health systems of its 191 member states in its World Health Report 2000.

United States Ranked 38 Overall

Number 1 in Expenditures

Belief in strong social and economic mobility—that Americans can and do rise from humble origins to riches—has been called a "civil religion",[4] "the bedrock upon which the American story has been anchored",[5] and part of the American identity (the American Dream[6]), celebrated in the lives of famous Americans such as Benjamin Franklin and Henry Ford,[4] and in popular culture (from the books of Horatio Alger and Norman Vincent Peale to the song "Movin' on Up"[7]). Opinion polls show that this belief has been both stronger in the US than in years past, and stronger than in other developed countries.[8] However, in recent years several large studies have found that vertical inter-generational mobility is lower, not higher, in the US than in those countries.[4]

The Brookings Institution said in 2013 that income inequality was increasing and becoming permanent, sharply reducing social mobility.[9]

You're the best... arooound... nothin's gonna ever keep ya dooooooooooooooowwwwnnnnn....

Here's a simple moral: There is a difference between being the 'biggest' at something and being the 'best' at it.

edited 27th Aug '13 3:48:53 PM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#62250: Aug 27th 2013 at 3:58:57 PM

Since this is bothering me too much...

Can someone either write or bring up an extensive argument, stats and all, that opposes photo ID? My entire family disagrees with me, and it's driving me crazy.


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