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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#417501: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:10:46 PM

If the problem has any solution at all, it'd be a long-term one of overturning the culture of the nation as a whole.

How do we go about that?... I've got nothing.

My musician page
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#417502: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:12:11 PM

I've got nothing either.

Although I'll say that I am strongly in favor of voting days being mandatory holidays and other measures that increase ballot access. That's a good thing regardless of any other considerations.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 22nd 2023 at 3:13:02 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#417503: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:12:46 PM

There's countries that I think could manage it, but the negative freedom thing in the US would get in the way.

This is a country where you legitimately get people who would prefer being bankrupted by medical bills over paying slightly more in taxes for government healthcare because they genuinely loathe the idea of putting any money at all towards helping anyone else.

Fuck you got mine writ large.

[up] But yeah, making Voting Day an official holiday and removing the pre-registration requirement and making free photo I Ds a matter of course and easy to get would be pretty reasonable steps.

Edited by Zendervai on Nov 22nd 2023 at 3:14:38 PM

PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#417504: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:20:31 PM

No-excuse mail voting did gain traction in places during the pandemic. I certainly see it as an improvement. Of course, since such things are a state issue rather than a federal issue (at least as things stand now), access to that is uneven too.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#417505: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:21:29 PM

Well, let me say that it's not as bleak as "all Americans are assholes". That's a gross oversimplification. Rather, the US was founded by groups of people with radically opposing views on freedom and civic duty, and those groups have been at war with each other ever since, with varying degrees of détente along the way.

Large-scale cultural shifts always seem to be attached to media propaganda blitzes: rule of law, for example, was instilled by waves of Hollywood films under the Hays Code. Civic participation was an explicit objective of public schooling. Anti-war sentiment was largely a product of the (at the time) novel TV coverage of Vietnam. Popular books like Silent Spring spawned the environmental movement.

So all we need is a cultural propaganda blitz to shift everyone's opinions. Put me in charge; I'll be sure not to abuse that power.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 22nd 2023 at 3:22:28 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#417506: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:23:48 PM

[up] With all due respect, you'd be an incredibly awful pick for that job. You're not good at recognizing how stuff comes off to groups you're not really familiar with.

Media blitzes actually do work. It's a lot of the reason queer acceptance has come such a long way since even the 90s. But most of them seem to have been at least semi-organic. Top down attempts don't usually work with the big exception of cigarette smoking becoming incredibly unpopular in the big picture.

Edited by Zendervai on Nov 22nd 2023 at 3:24:36 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#417507: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:26:24 PM

I was being sarcastic, Zendervai. I don't trust anyone with that kind of power.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#417508: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:29:52 PM

Ironically, we would need a majority of people to vote in favor of making voting mandatory, at which point is the law really necessary?

Anyway, regarding the attraction of Freedom From vs Freedom To (otherwise knows as Negative and Positive Freedom), both sides have had philosophers arguing in support of one and against the other. In the US (but not only the US) there is a kind of folk libertarianism (not to be confused with the kind favored by billionaire tech-bros), in which people reject centralized coordinated efforts to solve societal problems because they do not trust the authorities. People reject government coordinated social programs, scientific evidence by experts, and the opinions of the college educated, because they believe that they have been taken advantage of in the past. I suspect that there is a cognitive effect going on as well. Some people find the world to be a very confusing and intimidating place, and their response is to try to both ignore it, and impose a simplifying belief system on it. That's where you get the conspiracy thinking.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#417509: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:34:32 PM

Anyway, even if you make everyone vote, you can't guarantee that:

1-The new voters will vote for you and not for the other party

2-They will not just leave the paper empty, write insults, or draw dolphins fighting with lightsabers.

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#417510: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:36:03 PM

Meanwhile, most conspiracy theories make things more complicated. Because "people are weird and sometimes selfish and corporations do shitty things and sometimes weird shit just happens" is a lot simpler than "the US and the Soviet Union and every major organization with a telescope is in on faking the moon landing and somehow a conspiracy involving millions of people has never been blown wide open because...I didn't think that far"

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#417511: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:45:20 PM

I was recently reminded of the WWII carpool ad. Can you imagine doing that today? If you replace Hitler with Putin, all of Trump's electorate will rush to the nearest dealership to buy cars for their children.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#417512: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:52:15 PM

I guess that depends on your definition of complicated, from whose point of view. It's simpler to believe (ie, requires less cognitive effort) in malevolent intention than random chance (which a lot of people have trouble envisioning). It's a fact of our brain that we evolved as pattern recognizers who make a lot of false positives (and not, in contrast, as pattern theorizers whose first impulsive reaction to something bad happening is an attempt to gather all relevant facts and conduct a reasoned analysis of them).

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#417513: Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:53:01 PM

@Medinoc Funny you should mention, someone actually did do that.

I would indeed say that there's a problem with Americans lacking a sense of civic obligation. Specifically, the idea of viewing America as a whole as "your team" that you need to promote, especially over rival teams like Russia, is kind of lost on people these days.

Leviticus 19:34
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#417514: Nov 22nd 2023 at 1:00:50 PM

That's because the American public is divided on overall political direction and vision, and has begun regarding their "team" as the political party they identify with.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#417515: Nov 22nd 2023 at 1:01:56 PM

" When you ride alone, you ride with Hitler"

"Swap riding—the new way to new friendships"

"Uncle Sam wagging his finger- fil those empty seats"

smile Ah the 40s.

Edited by jawal on Nov 22nd 2023 at 10:07:14 AM

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#417516: Nov 22nd 2023 at 1:15:15 PM

Soooo, today marks the 60th Anniversary of JFK's assassination.

Biden make a statement about it

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/11/22/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-the-60th-anniversary-of-the-assassination-of-president-john-f-kennedy/

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#417517: Nov 22nd 2023 at 1:15:40 PM

What did his statement say?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#417518: Nov 22nd 2023 at 1:19:29 PM

"I miss that guy, he knew how to party!"

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#417519: Nov 22nd 2023 at 1:25:30 PM

Biden days he was in college at the time Kennedy was killed, and remembers being glued to the tv screen with all his fellow students when they heard the news.

MDLuder Since: May, 2022
#417520: Nov 22nd 2023 at 1:47:21 PM

Am I right in assuming that the mystique around JFK has waned in recent years?

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#417521: Nov 22nd 2023 at 1:55:28 PM

I mean, given that there are several generations that were born after the dude was already dead, I think that's only natural.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#417522: Nov 22nd 2023 at 1:56:42 PM

The Kennedys used to be treated like a noble family, but it seems like pretty much everyone under like...35 barely gives a shit about them. My main exposure to them beyond stuff about JFK was jokes in the Nanny about how the oldest daughter in the family shouldn't be left alone with one.

Booplesnoot Since: Aug, 2023
#417523: Nov 22nd 2023 at 1:59:26 PM

Is anybody here familiar with Allan Lichtman's "13 keys to the White House"?

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#417524: Nov 22nd 2023 at 2:11:18 PM

I went to a high school named after Kennedy. I've read his book Profiles in Courage, which was probably fair for its day, but has several chapters I strenuously disagree with. I've read a few books about specific moments of his presidency, the one about his involvement in the Ol' Miss Riot trying to keep its first Black enrollee from getting killed always stood out to me.

My idea of how he sounded is probably more influenced by the film Thirteen Days than actual recordings of his speeches.

Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Deadly Vu!
#417525: Nov 22nd 2023 at 2:48:28 PM

I've always been sort of fascinated by the JFK assassination, primarily because of how many mysteries and conspiracy theories it kicked off (although in general I think it's a cut and dry "Lee Harvey Oswald shot him").

Edited by Brandon on Nov 22nd 2023 at 2:48:45 AM

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