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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
There's also the type of voter who sees themselves as the type of person who just wants to mind their own business, not get involved in anyone else's, not let anyone else get involved in theirs, and sees politics as an intrusion on this lifestyle. Yet they know they will have to vote somehow, so they purposely base their vote on low information impressions. It's a choice.
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.Not getting involved in politics is a privilege, one that for a large fraction of people is afforded thanks to having a Democrat in office. If you're a woman, ethnic minority or any other minority, the moment a Republican gets in office, politics get involved in you.
But at this point it might be too late for you.
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."Truck explosion closes Rainbow Bridge, the border Bridge over the Niagara Falls.
Even if you aren't a minority, cursory understanding of certain critical factors can still result in politics getting involved in you.
Anyone well-educated in the impending existential crisis of climate change, for instance, doesn't have the luxury of going, "Meh, politics don't affect my life and I like it that way." Climate change is a polarized issue now. One party wants to let us all die so they can rake in oil profits. If you're invested in that, politics are involved with your life whether you like it or not.
A lot of people who are politically active, are so because they literally do not have the option not to be. You can't ignore politics when politics know where you live.
And it is intensely frustrating to see other people treat politics like a football game, where the only stakes are deciding which team gets to celebrate with beers on the night of the Big Event.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 22nd 2023 at 11:20:40 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Is it frustrating? Absolutely. I'm right with you on that. But ignoring the apathy of a large portion of voters isn't going to achieve any goals.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I think even more frustrating than people treating politics as a game is people who tell us not to take it so seriously. Like yeah, watching the news all the time is not good for our mental health, but I've come across people who try to tell me not to pay attention to the news.
My musician pageIt is a normal phenomenon in all countries that voters' turnout will be lower than the majority of the population.
In fact, the U.S. has a very good percentage (in 2020 66.8% of citizens 18 years of age and older voted in the election)
Or even in 2012, before Trump's rise, you had a percentage of 55%.
If you want more than that, you need to make voting obligatory or compulsory, (that is why Belgium can have 95% turnout).
Edited by jawal on Nov 22nd 2023 at 8:43:01 PM
Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurtThe US as it is would never make voting compulsory. It'd mean getting rid of most voter suppression methods and making election day a formal holiday, complete with a ton of alternative voting methods to cover people in industries that can't get the day off.
The entire Republican party would rather light themselves on fire than allow that.
Personal freedom in a country like the United States must necessarily extend to not paying attention to politics, or indeed not voting, because otherwise we're being hypocrites about the whole business. Mandatory voting, literacy tests, and things like that are non-starters... well, unless it's a poll test or poll tax for minorities, which Republicans are more than happy to implement, but I digress.
Part of what we fight for is the right not to give a shit... or not to have to give a shit if you don't want to, more properly. By the same token, if you don't give a shit, you shouldn't complain when bad things happen, but that's the paradox of freedom.
I have yet to think of a way to compel people to be politically involved that doesn't turn someone into a de-facto arbiter of "good behavior". Maybe we're fine with that, but it must be acknowledged as a risk.
Edited by Fighteer on Nov 22nd 2023 at 2:51:25 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@jawal
Edited by Risa123 on Nov 22nd 2023 at 8:54:39 PM
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I think it's probably worth noting that Belgium isn't exactly known as a place with no freedom and the local attitude is that it's a duty and privilege to vote and, interestingly, they extend a non-mandatory right to vote in local elections to foreign non-citizens who have lived in the country more than five years. They value the right to vote. A lot of Americans are borderline offended at the idea of voting.
This is running again into the problem with how people understand the concept of freedom.
Like...freedom to do things is important. Freedom to have a say in your government, freedom to have a good education, freedom to be able to support yourself no matter your circumstances, etc etc etc. But a lot of Americans are totally incapable of understanding freedom in any context but freedom from things. The latter tends to manifest in a kneejerk "don't you tell me what to do" attitude that can lead to truly deranged and stupid outcomes when the person saying it isn't paying enough attention to what's going on.
Like, I've met people who hate voting entirely because people ask them to. They seem generally politically aware and know what's going on, they just...refuse because they can't handle the idea of being asked to do anything that doesn't instantly benefit them.
Edited by Zendervai on Nov 22nd 2023 at 3:02:46 PM
Indeed, forcing people to vote would suggest a misunderstanding of the actual problem, and do more harm: people not caring about... well, anything that doesn't immediately affect them. And it would only make all the non-voters into low-information voters, which... I would not consider an improvement.
My musician pageIt's a question of values. Do you care more about personal independence and autonomy, or more about collective outcomes? Is it more important to reduce the rate of poverty, by whatever democratic means are available, or to solve one's own problems and earn a living without outside support except from people you know and trust (family, friends, community)? Is it more important to promote public health in general, or that each person preserves control over their own lifestyle choices, even if that elevates the risk of disease and reduced lifespan? These are value judgements, with no objectively correct answer.
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.Aside from ![]()
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this, which is very true, I don't see any way to fix the problem. The United States has a cultural worship of negative freedoms and a large segment of the populace that is fetishistically committed to that philosophy, for good or for ill. Might as well teach a whale to ski at this point.
The fundamental flaw of democracy is that you need at least fifty percent of the voters not to be assholes, or the assholes will win.
Edited by Fighteer on Nov 22nd 2023 at 3:08:28 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"The assumption is that choosing not to vote is a political action which people have a right to take, which can be but there are also ways to make voting difficult for certain groups. So for some not voting isnt a free decision it's a choice you make between voting and getting fired or being home to look after kids etc . When voting is required the state is required to make sure you can vote.

I've said it before and I'll reiterate now: a large swath of voters is completely tuned out on politics and sees voting as either a meaningless gesture or a way to stick it to the system. They'll fixate on whatever sound bites the media is feeding them, so if Biden is "too old" or "senile", that'll be the takeaway, even if other political figures are also old.
If they hear that inflation is running wild or that the economy sucks, they'll believe that even if their personal situations are fine. If they believe that all politicians are corrupt, they'll listen to rhetoric saying that Trump is being "singled out" even if the slightest inquiry would reveal that to be a lie.
Here on these forums and in our social media cliques, we live in rarefied spaces where being politically literate is considered a virtue.
Edited by Fighteer on Nov 22nd 2023 at 11:56:55 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"