TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#404276: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:05:43 PM

I'm sympathetic to the administration's predicament here, but I also want to add some context here that might explain why people are so angry.

Climate activists have been lobbying the president for months over the Willow project. This didn't come out of the blue, a lot of time and effort went into opposing this. I saw several articles over the past week and honestly I wasn't sure which way Biden would go. I half expected him to actually oppose the construction knowing he'd be shot down by the court, but willing to do it for some good PR with the activist wing.

So while the decision might be politically sensible, I can see why many would be angry. They gave it their all and it feels like they were betrayed.

doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#404277: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:13:26 PM

[up] And to rub salt in the wound, Biden's administration denied rumors it was being approved after reporting came out that it was going to happen.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#404278: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:13:50 PM

They couldn't stop Willow,she's too strong and powerful

seriously though,this the kind of decision people will remember during the next election.

Edited by Ultimatum on Mar 15th 2023 at 9:15:07 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#404279: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:23:44 PM

I highly doubt that. Most voters don't even care about this project, the ones who do care are never going to vote for Trump or a Trump expy because he's going to do a lot worse.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#404280: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:24:39 PM

I’d be very surprised if this specific event comes up during the election, beyond being one data point in people making a broad assessment of Biden’s position on the environment.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#404281: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:31:40 PM

Being honest by first thought when I saw "history won't be kind" to Biden over this last page was to sincerely wonder if history would even really care.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#404282: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:46:22 PM

I think there's a chance history will care,even if it ends up as a footnote.

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#404283: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:47:25 PM

I think that any objective assessment would conclude that the Biden Admin did far more for the environment than against it.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#404284: Mar 15th 2023 at 3:16:22 PM

I think history would pay more attention to how it got bipartisan and unanimous support in the Alaskan congress, was broadly popular in the state, and how Biden was able to get two of the sites cancelled and the land returned to the government.

Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#404285: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:03:44 PM

Irrespective of how bad this drilling project is, I do notice that everything bad that Biden does gets immense pushback on this forum while the good things he does are barely mentionned.

I've said it before, but the "Is this Biden finally betraying the Left?" outrages have way too much of the same energy as "Is this Trump finally becoming presidential?"

Edited by Wryte on Mar 15th 2023 at 5:04:06 AM

Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#404286: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:38:24 PM

So we're supposed to clap and cheer because he greenlit a giant oil drilling project, just because the alternative is the orange psycho or book-burning Florida Man?

That's exactly Macron's rhetoric and strategy in France. Whenever you criticize him, the answer is "But if it wasn't me it would be Le Pen in charge", as if it was a Get Out of Jail Free card against any and all criticism.

Plus this is an international forum. There are three Biden policies that actively impact my life in Europe. First is the Ukraine support - net positive in Europe. Then there's the economic protectionnism - net negative. And now there's the massive oil drilling project - net negative too.

Maybe he's on a domestic slam dunk, I don't know.

But I don't think I have to add "at least he's not as bad as Trump" every time. Of course he isn't. But "not being as bad as Trump" is a pretty low bar to clear and almost akin to being Damned by Faint Praise.

Edited by Bexlerfu on Mar 15th 2023 at 1:40:36 PM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#404287: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:41:45 PM

I literally have no idea what actually possible alternate course of action Biden could have taken that wouldn't end up making things worse.

My musician page
Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#404288: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:45:42 PM

Well, I don't know.

Maybe opposing the project and being defeated in court would have raised the slight issue that local idiots get an unbelievable power of nuisance in this country on extremely important matters, and that one might want to change how things work if one does not want to become the setting of a Mad Max sequel?

Or would have incited some people to look for plans to develop local communities that do not involve destroying ecosystems and producing an unbelievable amount of carbon dioxide?

Edited by Bexlerfu on Mar 15th 2023 at 1:46:27 PM

4maskwolf Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
#404289: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:47:52 PM

Except what’s being said here isn’t “at least he isn’t Trump.” It’s acknowledging that Biden isn’t a god-emperor who can enforce his every political will and, whatever his personal opinion on the drilling project may be, getting back two of the drilling sites which were originally part of a deal he was not party to is realistically probably the best deal that was possible on the issue. Had he blocked all five it might delay development for a few years while it works its way through court proceedings but in the end it gets overturned and all five sites are developed.

And you can bet that if that happened the exact same people would be shouting about how Biden was an ineffectual president who utterly failed to protect the environment.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#404290: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:47:56 PM

[up][up]I think the people who care already know just how broken the US system is.

Also, to my understanding, Biden being defeated in court would result in even more drilling than what was just approved, it wouldn't just be a different route to just as bad.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Mar 15th 2023 at 8:48:55 AM

My musician page
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#404291: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:48:50 PM

Maybe opposing the project and being defeated in court would have raised the slight issue that local idiots get an unbelievable power of nuisance in this country on extremely important matters, and that one might want to change how things work if one does not want to become the setting of a Mad Max sequel?

Indeed, if it's being built either way then making a show of things could very well be the best course of action. Use it as an example of court overreach and propagandize against the oil industry.

The President has the biggest bully pulpit in the world, he could consider using it.

I think the people who care already know just how broken the US system is.

"people who care" aren't the ones who need to be convinced, it's the ignorant or the apathetic that need to be reached.

And you can bet that if that happened the exact same people would be shouting about how Biden was an ineffectual president who utterly failed to protect the environment.

Ah yes, the classic "I'm going to create a fictional scenario where you're unpleasable so I can safely dismiss your criticism". Charming.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Mar 15th 2023 at 5:50:19 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#404292: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:52:18 PM

I've said it before, but the "Is this Biden finally betraying the Left?" outrages have way too much of the same energy as "Is this Trump finally becoming presidential?"

At this point I just tune it out.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#404293: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:53:40 PM

Look, Biden is the president. When a fuckery like this occurs, who else should we blame? George Washington for the way he wrote the Constitution?

I mean, obviously, we can blame Big Oil. But Big Oil is not going to change because we ask nicely or scream loud enough. Big Oil will destroy the planet four times over if it increases its bottom line. So Big Oil needs to be strongarmed somehow. And who else but the President of the United States might have the influence to do that?

And if indeed, the POTUS is utterly helpless against the oil lobby, what should we do, just all go rolling coal because we're screwed anyway so we might as well do a circus of it? What's the alternative here when Biden is unable to stop a project like that?

Because I'm not a US Citizen. I can't vote on that environmental disaster. But I'll enjoy the CO 2 emissions just as much.

Edited by Bexlerfu on Mar 15th 2023 at 1:55:35 PM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#404294: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:54:12 PM

[up][up][up]If someone is still ignorant or apathetic at this point, I'd be amazed if anything short of their faces getting bitten off by the leopards changed that.

[up]Right now? The Supreme Court is where that power lies to my understanding. And, well...

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Mar 15th 2023 at 8:54:53 AM

My musician page
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#404295: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:57:47 PM

Irrespective of how bad this drilling project is, I do notice that everything bad that Biden does gets immense pushback on this forum while the good things he does are barely mentionned.

I've noticed the opposite, to be honest.

Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#404296: Mar 15th 2023 at 5:58:17 PM

[up][up]Alright.

Then Sonia Sotomayor is 68. It's not old, but it's an age in which you might get sick in three years time and have to be replaced.

Why not pick a 40-something jurist right now and politely but firmly ask justice Sotomayor to enjoy her retirement, to dramatically lower the odds of a GOP president in the next decade getting yet another seat pick to turn the court redder?

That's within Biden's power, right?

And even if the House turned Republican, that can't stop anything, as Trump confirmed two Justices while it was blue.

Edited by Bexlerfu on Mar 15th 2023 at 1:59:27 PM

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#404297: Mar 15th 2023 at 6:00:30 PM

[up][up][up][up] Look, I'm not in the US either, but this entire post really reads to me like "okay but reality of the situation be damned, I need one person to direct all my ire at or it's not emotionally satisfying".

Edited by Perseus on Mar 16th 2023 at 12:00:52 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#404298: Mar 15th 2023 at 6:00:30 PM

Right now? The Supreme Court is where that power lies to my understanding. And, well...

It does, and the only way anything is going to be done against it is if we start laying the groundwork now. Which means working to shift the court of public opinion against them, such as by doing things like I don't know- launching a lengthy court battle.

Can Biden stop this? No. And that's not his fault. But that doesn't mean he's doing all he can.

Look, I'm not in the US either, but this entire post really reads to me like "okay but I need one person to direct all my ire at or it's not emotionally satisfying".

He's the President, holding him responsible for his administration OK-ing more CO 2 production is not unreasonable.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Mar 15th 2023 at 6:01:16 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#404299: Mar 15th 2023 at 6:00:46 PM

Look, Biden is the president. When a fuckery like this occurs, who else should we blame?

The State of Alaska, who overwhelmingly voted for this project and are ultimately the ones in charge of their own resources?

Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#404300: Mar 15th 2023 at 6:01:38 PM

[up][up][up] It's either anger or resignation from where I stand. I don't really see an alternate course of action.

There's denial too, true.

[up] Well if a tiny country like Alaska is screwing things up, surely neighbouring countries can pressure it to tell it to stop doing it, right? Cutting trade agreements, international sanctions maybe? Tariffs on Alaskan goods in the entirety of North America?

Edited by Bexlerfu on Mar 15th 2023 at 2:03:01 PM


Total posts: 417,856
Top