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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#376251: Oct 13th 2021 at 9:46:08 AM

Ah. Well, that's on me, then. I misunderstood the intent there.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#376252: Oct 13th 2021 at 9:51:59 AM

We have this tendency to whitewash the problems of cultures that get subjugated by more powerful cultures. It shows up in many ways, such as people overlooking the racism of certain Native American tribes because the white colonists were so much worse, or people glossing over the atrocities Israel has committed on Palestinians because of Holocaust guilt or whatever.

In the real world, people are complicated and there are rarely clear good and bad guys. World War II was an aberration and one that has caused a severe distortion of geopolitical morality.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 13th 2021 at 12:53:03 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#376253: Oct 13th 2021 at 9:56:00 AM

World War II was an aberration and one that has caused a severe distortion of geopolitical morality.

Was it, though? Having the freaking Stalin-era Soviet Union on the winning side is a pretty strong argument against that statement.

Edited by ElSquibbonator on Oct 13th 2021 at 12:56:35 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#376254: Oct 13th 2021 at 9:57:53 AM

The Western powers, especially the United States, spent the next half-century if not longer parading around as the great heroes of the 20th century, sniffing our own farts and believing we could do no wrong despite copious evidence to the contrary.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 13th 2021 at 12:58:13 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#376255: Oct 13th 2021 at 10:02:01 AM

U.S. Treasury hobbled by Cruz's nomination holds, officials say

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
That Guy
#376256: Oct 13th 2021 at 10:15:57 AM

[up][up][up]

Stalin's Russia is WHY we were on the winning side.

Moat people assume D-Day was the turning point of the war. It wasn't, it was a diversion to draw some forces off of the Eastern Front. The battles that broke the Axis were the battles of Kursk (Where they lost most of their tanks, and is the largest Tank battle in history), and Stalingrad (Where they lost most of their men, and the fighting was so intense, Soviet soldiers were clearing piles of dead Axis soldiers to deny them cover). the US and UK basically worked tgether to whitewash the Soviet Union's role in ending the war because it would have made Stalin feasibly be seen as a hero and possibly have made Communism look more attractive, so they had to demonize it ASAP, something that's still done to this day.

History isn't just written by the Victors. It's also written by propagandists a lot of the time, which is why historians are constantly still re-checking records, and checking for newly recovered ones.

Edited by Pendrake on Oct 13th 2021 at 10:23:38 AM

Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#376257: Oct 13th 2021 at 10:20:11 AM

[up][up] Because straining ties with Germany even more is really going to help with opposing Russian interests.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#376258: Oct 13th 2021 at 10:22:10 AM

[up][up] You can say "The Russians carried the bulk of WW 2" and "Stalin was totalitarian piece of crap".

Both of these things can be true at the same time. Especially since "Better than Hitler" is pretty much the lowest bar of them all.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#376259: Oct 13th 2021 at 10:22:18 AM

[up][up] That's exactly what the Republicans want, though, isn't it?

Edited by ElSquibbonator on Oct 13th 2021 at 1:22:46 PM

Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
That Guy
#376260: Oct 13th 2021 at 10:27:37 AM

[up][up]

Pretty much.

You don't have to like Stalin, or the Soviet Union, but Soviet Blood, American Hardware, and British Intelligence gathering is what won WW 2, in that order.

(For anyone who cares, there's actually a specific American Aircraft that was almost solely-used on the Russian front, that never really gets talked about because of that, Despite having the most confirmed kills of ANY US fighter, the P-39 Airacobra, very much a Cool Plane).

Edited by Pendrake on Oct 13th 2021 at 10:28:59 AM

Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#376261: Oct 13th 2021 at 10:35:51 AM

British stubbornness may have actually had a bigger impact than British intelligence. If Britain had made a peace deal after the Fall of France the war could have gone very differently.

Anyway, to get us back on topic. In the end what being victimised does to a person is make them a victim, it doesn’t transform them into a good person if they are a bad person.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
That Guy
#376262: Oct 13th 2021 at 10:47:44 AM

Yep.

A Victim being an asshole is still an asshole. Having been a victim will never change that, as the GOP's proven over the past while when they try to pull that card.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/13/politics/marine-plead-guilty-videos/index.html

On an unrelated note, a Marine's been critical of the military leadership failure pulling out of Afghanistan and is willing to face jailtime and a discharge over it.

Edited by Pendrake on Oct 13th 2021 at 10:51:51 AM

Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#376263: Oct 13th 2021 at 10:56:54 AM

Apologies if this has been mentioned however there's a brand new conspiracy theory about the 2020 elections:

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1447975362915414021

It wasnt those dastardly Democrats who fixed the election... It was the Republicans, with a truly big brained plan to improve their standing in the mid terms.

Edited by jakobitis on Oct 13th 2021 at 10:58:03 AM

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#376264: Oct 13th 2021 at 11:01:22 AM

That's lovely.

Revisiting the WWII thing for a minute, I just wanted to add another point: the brunt of the casualties in the Pacific theater were incurred during Japan's invasion of East Asia. History books don't discuss that much.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
That Guy
#376265: Oct 13th 2021 at 11:04:01 AM

Yep.

As well as the fact that Japan Surrendered not because of the Atomic Bombings (They'd actually already tried a few times, Mac Arthur refused), but because there was a hundred thousand Russian Troops sitting in Manchuria, who were within visual range of see the flash from both, and prepped to invade the Japanese Mainland. The US'd already done like ten times as much damage to Japan with Firebombing campaigns anyways.

https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/supply-chain-issues-biden-10-13-21/h_7ab9aada3e6aceccfd702da1738af8b2

Biden's getting more pressure for dropping those Tariffs Trump put in place.

Edited by Pendrake on Oct 13th 2021 at 11:08:22 AM

Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#376266: Oct 13th 2021 at 11:06:51 AM

Well, it's a World War. No matter where you look (except Antartica), there was death and destruction aplenty.

[up]Well they tried conditional surrenders, which the US did not accept since they wanted an unconditional one.

Edited by Resileafs on Oct 13th 2021 at 2:09:04 PM

Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
That Guy
#376267: Oct 13th 2021 at 11:09:14 AM

Yes, but the point is some of the places it was the WORST were basically blatantly ignored by Western History Books for the better part of a century.

[up] The Condition in about half of the attempts was just "The Emperor stays in power as a figurehead."

Which is basically "We want to surrender with honor" as a cultural thing.

Edited by Pendrake on Oct 13th 2021 at 11:11:17 AM

Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#376268: Oct 13th 2021 at 11:10:06 AM

"Our losses were part of our cunning plan to win eventually!"

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#376269: Oct 13th 2021 at 11:11:37 AM

One of the things that I both liked and was frustrated by in the new Midway movie was that it depicted the contributions to the war effort by the Chinese and their suffering during the same time, directly connected to what was going on in the Pacific half of the Asia-Pacific theater.

Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
xyzt Since: Apr, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#376271: Oct 13th 2021 at 11:14:26 AM

[up][up][up][up]Didnt Japan also want to retain its colonies as part of the condition? And they were also hoping to convince the Russians to broker a negotiated deal that would be beneficial to them?

Edited by xyzt on Oct 13th 2021 at 11:44:42 PM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#376272: Oct 13th 2021 at 11:16:09 AM

Please let this finally get Bannon in jail.

Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
That Guy
#376273: Oct 13th 2021 at 11:17:37 AM

[up][up]

They dropped that one after the first couple attempts.

iirc, they tried about four times, the last two were the "The Emperor just stays on as a figurehead" ones.

Spekaing of Trumpists trying to avoid being Served: https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/09/politics/scavino-subpoena-january-6-committee/index.html

Scavino got found a few days ago and nailed with one.

Edited by Pendrake on Oct 13th 2021 at 11:19:09 AM

Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#376274: Oct 13th 2021 at 11:19:10 AM

Note that Japan still has an Emperor as figurehead.

Disgusted, but not surprised
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#376275: Oct 13th 2021 at 11:27:04 AM

Speaking of Japan and WWII, they signed an agreement saying they can't have an army, instead they have a "Self-Defence Force." But, is there a statue of limitations on the no army thing? Can they never have an army again, or are they good to go after a certain amount of time has passed?


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