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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#352526: Jan 22nd 2021 at 1:44:16 AM

Jackson also did more good than Trump, as well as more evil. Unlike Trump, the man fought to preserve the laws of the United States just when the Confederacy was starting to build steam.

Doesn't make up for the Trail of Tears, but like it or not, it's part of his legacy.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#352527: Jan 22nd 2021 at 3:06:48 AM

Meanwhile, the far right propaganda apparatus has switched back to tan suit mode:

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#352528: Jan 22nd 2021 at 3:07:16 AM

Of all things, Trump's legacy (to me, a non-American admittedly) is pretty well summed up by a Game of Thrones quote: "We've had vicious kings and we've had idiot kings, but I don't know if we've ever been cursed with a vicious idiot for a king."

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
minseok42 A Self-inflicted Disaster from A Six-Tatami Room (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
A Self-inflicted Disaster
#352529: Jan 22nd 2021 at 3:17:39 AM

The USCP kicked out the National Guard members from the Capitol. The National Guard resorted to sleeping on the floor in nearby parking garages. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) said he will get to the bottom of this, and some lawmakers, including AOC (D-NY 14) and Joni Ernst (R-IA) offered their offices as rest areas for service members. The National Guard members were ordered back into the Capitol.

Edited by minseok42 on Jan 22nd 2021 at 8:18:51 PM

"Enshittification truly is how platforms die"-Cory Doctorow
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#352530: Jan 22nd 2021 at 4:18:47 AM

[up] Senator Duckworth (D-IL) apparently made calls [1], and Sen. Sinema (D-AZ) offered her office [2], too. (Links go to their tweets)


The Hill: House approves waiver for Biden's Pentagon nominee [Gen. Lloyd Austin]. The waiver still needs to be approved by the Senate and then they need to confirm the nomination.


From The Hill, an unnamed Republican Senator expects about 5-6 GOP Senators to vote for conviction, which sounds about right to me. Reasons why they're voting against:

One significant development is that Trump decided not to pardon any of the individuals charged with taking part in the Capitol riot, which would have lost him more Republican support.

"I thought if he pardoned people who had been part of this invasion of the Capitol, that would have pushed the number higher because that would have said, 'These are my guys,'" said one Republican senator, who requested anonymity to speak about how GOP senators are likely to vote.

GOP senators are also worried about a political backlash from the former president's fervent supporters.

A second Republican senator said the Republican Party needs to rebuild and warned it will be tough to bring Trump's base into the party tent ahead of the 2022 midterm elections and the 2024 presidential election if GOP senators vote in large numbers to convict Trump.

"For the most part there is a real strong consensus among our members that this is after the fact. He's out of office and impeachment is a remedy to remove somebody from office so there's the constitutional question," the second GOP senator said.

A fourth factor is growing doubt about whether Chief Justice John Roberts will preside over a Senate trial.

Republicans say if Roberts doesn't preside and the chair is instead occupied by Vice President Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) - who voted to convict Trump on two articles of impeachment last year - or President Pro Tempore Pat Leahy (D-Vt.), the process will appear like a partisan exercise.

"It starts losing its legitimacy," the first Republican senator said of an impeachment trial without the chief justice in the chair.

Edited by nova92 on Jan 22nd 2021 at 4:48:50 AM

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#352531: Jan 22nd 2021 at 4:32:01 AM

Why would Roberts not be presiding?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#352532: Jan 22nd 2021 at 4:38:38 AM

According to Politico:

JOHN ROBERTS WANTS OUT OF JURY DUTY: Multiple Republican and Democratic sources close to the impeachment trial negotiations tell us that Supreme Court Chief Justice JOHN ROBERTS is looking to avoid presiding over impeachment proceedings.

We're hearing that Roberts, who for years has sought to keep the courts apolitical, was not happy he became a top target of the left during Trump's first impeachment trial. "He wants no further part of this," one of our Hill sources says. A spokesperson for the chief justice declined to comment when our Josh Gerstein reached out.

The Constitution delegates the chief justice to oversee impeachments of presidents, but this time around Trump will be an ex-president. That's why lawmakers and aides were talking through the weekend about two other figures who historically have presided over lower-level impeachments: the vice president and the longest-serving member of the chamber. But would KAMALA HARRIS really want to do this in her first week on the job? If not, Sen. PATRICK LEAHY (D-Vt.) could be the guy.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#352533: Jan 22nd 2021 at 4:42:29 AM

I feel extremely, kind of, not at all sorry for Roberts. Well, fine, he's in an awful and unique position as he takes abuse from both the left and the right, but if you're going to be an eternal fence-sitter, you need to own it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#352534: Jan 22nd 2021 at 4:48:25 AM

Is that even possible? Isn't he basically trying to shirk his duty as chief justice?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#352535: Jan 22nd 2021 at 4:53:44 AM

It's rather blatantly cowardly of him, considering his only excuses for recusing himself are flimsy technicalities and lack of precedent.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#352537: Jan 22nd 2021 at 5:06:02 AM

Yeah, this seems blatantly partial.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#352538: Jan 22nd 2021 at 5:27:38 AM

If Roberts doesn't want to do the job he can retire. Or if he provides a good reason to not preside, he can suggest another Supreme Court Justice to preside in his place.

As for the National Guard being kicked out of the building, I expect we might see another resignation from within the Capitol Police for that, the Capitol Police's leadership are going to already be on very thin ice, picking a fight with the National Guard is really stupid on their part.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#352539: Jan 22nd 2021 at 5:33:48 AM

So why were they kicked out?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#352540: Jan 22nd 2021 at 5:42:02 AM

I don't think we know yet. Not any official reason anyway.

Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#352541: Jan 22nd 2021 at 5:43:56 AM

Though I have a few educated guesses as to what the unofficial reason is

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#352542: Jan 22nd 2021 at 5:44:54 AM

From what I read from the Politico article, it seems the issue is more the manner in which they were evicted than the reason that it is the issue.

To be honest, quartering troops in the Capitol was always a bit of a media stunt. A lot of this drama could have been avoided if they had had proper quarters overseen by the military.

And yes, it is rather heartless to show them the door this way after the show of force is no longer required.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#352543: Jan 22nd 2021 at 5:55:03 AM

"I thought he was the push up guy, isn't he the push up guy, what does he need a Peloton for?"

Fox not understanding the concept of doing multiple exercises in your workout for the sake of stirring up a scandal. grin

How Republican voters listen to this and not think it is ludicrous is beyond me.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#352544: Jan 22nd 2021 at 5:56:22 AM

[up] Easy: Because they don't think.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#352545: Jan 22nd 2021 at 5:57:28 AM

Who wants to bet that somewhere in the Hereafter RBG is flailing her hands in the air wishing SHE could be the one to oversee the Impeachment Trial

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#352546: Jan 22nd 2021 at 5:57:39 AM

Biden jumping the gun because he was sworn in 10 minutes too early is a close second, but I think Pelotongate is my favourite non-scandal so far.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#352547: Jan 22nd 2021 at 5:59:52 AM

[up] My favourite one is when Republicans got offended about Biden calling out lies and white supremacy because they feel personally attacked.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jan 22nd 2021 at 3:00:04 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#352548: Jan 22nd 2021 at 6:11:33 AM

Btw, why does the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court preside over impeachment trials where the accused is President, when presiding the Senate is normally the VP's job?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#352549: Jan 22nd 2021 at 6:12:51 AM

Because the Constitution says so. Presumably because the VP would become president if the Senate convicts the President, so if the VP also presides over the trial that would be a huge conflict of interest.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#352550: Jan 22nd 2021 at 6:20:34 AM

The Supreme Court is also not (officially, anyway) partisan. As much as could be made so (can't just be fired meaning protection from political retaliation, etc), and presumably much more so than actual politicians.


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