The General US Politics Thread

Yeah, but abandoning the higher ground is not the way to do it. It would just end up corrupting the Dems as much as it has corrupted the Republicans.

You're fooling yourself if you think it HASN'T corrupted democrats already. I mean, hell, you can notice the massive polarization on this forum itself with all the "RAH, ALL REPUBLICANS ARE IDIOTS AND FASCISTS!" which makes about as much logical sense as All Germans Are Nazis, that is, none.

On a less serious and humourous note: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVR2_JyVzHE

To paraphrase Tywin Lannister: "Anyone who must say 'I am the President!' is no true President."

All Germans Are Nazis is not a good comparator to use as way too many Germans were Nazis

I think most people on this forum understand there is bound to be some diversity of thought and motivations in the 70+ million people that voted for Trump. It's unrealistic to think all of them are kool-aid sipping MAGA hardcore cultists. The point is moreso that it doesn't speak well of them that they'd all support Trump and GOP policy after all this time, regardless of their reasons for doing so, because in the end, the result is the same.

Also, I just want to point out that this forum is not necessarily indicative of what most democrats think anyway. Not only is the sample size ridiculously small, but a lot of people who post here (like me) aren't even democrats because we don't live in and can't vote in the US.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 27th 2020 at 12:42:28 PM

You have to remember that membership of the Nazi party was mandatory during world war II. People didn't exactly get a choice about not being a Nazi.

I would also add that many of us from abroad are not Democrats simply because we have multiple parties on the left, and don't have to put up with a monolithic left leaning party.

Edited by Redmess on Nov 27th 2020 at 4:44:09 PM

I wasn't trying to troll, I was just saying generalizing everyone who disagrees politically with you into one pile is very much akin to that Trope.

There are plenty of Republicans who voted for the guy due to being misled, ignorant (willfully or otherwise), and so on. that does not automatically mean they support EVERY decision he's made.

I'm a moderate leftist myself. But I'm also a realist. I know it's human nature to hold a grudge, but the only way the US is going to prevent having a Civil War within the next century is if BOTH sides simmer down.

I mean, just answer me this. If a republican got on this forum, and actually gave their own reasoning as to why they supported who they did, and gave their own viewpoints on why they didn't like the opposing party, would they actually get the same treatment as everyone else?

There are literal conservative friendly threads on this forum where they are not put on stakes and burnt and they just get to chat.

Also, FYI, I lean a bit more rightwing than a lot of the posters here, being a centrist.

If I felt particularly persecuted by most posters, I probably wouldn't still be posting here. I'm not a masochist.

All we ask is that you be willing to engage in genuine conversation. And appreciate why people might be upset by the things that the GOP is doing.

Okay.

Guess I'm just worried after seeing a few posts that seemed a little too gung-ho Far-Left Knight Templar.

It's easy to place blame, after all.

It's much harder to move past it. You don't have to forgive, or forget. But we'll all have to move on.

Also, I'm well aware I kind of suck at wording things. Never been a particularly social person. I just try the best i can.

Oh, I didn't say it to mean as if I'm ignoring the shit the GOP has done, Fighteer. I just happen to have several friends who are Trump-voting Republicans. That doesn't automatically make them horrible people. Misled and Ignorant, sure.

Actually reminds me that one of those friends recently posted advocating wearing a mask at work. She almost immediately got torn into by a Far-Right nutcase claiming "Masks Are Muzzles" and "Trump was prophesized to win."

Edited by Pendrake on Nov 27th 2020 at 8:18:25 AM

Still, Democrats can't exactly act like the GOP is going to act in good faith, so they need to get better at detecting and slapping down this kind of cheating.

I fully agree on that.

It's just my personal view to judge people on a per-case basis.

You are aware that we have a number of conservatives in OTC? I know we’ve got at least one pro-life/anti-abortion member, several right wing posters from other countries and a few democrats who are very much on the right side of the party.

The problem that Republicans run into is that we have rules against bigotry, against trolling/personal attacks and against arguing in bad faith.

I’m pretty sure there is still one Trump voter in OTC, but they stick to another thread, we’ve had others, but they kept violating the rules against bigotry.

I am pretty certain that any Republican reading this thread would likely conclude that there is no point in joining debates here.

Well any Trump supporting ones, I think I remember someone saying that they’re registered as a Republican even if they don’t vote that way.

I think we have to distinguish between the party, which is pretty thoroughly corrupt at this point, and the voters, who often live in a right wing media bubble that preys on them and misleads them about what they are doing and who their enemies are. And then there is the factor that a segment of these voters think they do not have a choice, because they are led to believe that the Democrats are worse, or they have seen the worst of Democrats in the past. Lets never forget that stop and frisk was a Democratic initiative by Bloomberg, and that Cuomo is a bad Democrat as well. If those are your examples of Democrats, then it becomes rather harder to associate yourself with them.

And I would encourage conservatives, if not outright Republicans, to join into the conversation here, in a civil manner of course. I think that would be healthy for the thread, which I do agree can be a bit of a leftist bubble at times.

Edited by Redmess on Nov 27th 2020 at 5:39:28 PM

Bloomberg was a Republican/Independent during Stop and Frisk. He only rejoined the party in 2018 (having switched from Democrat to Republican before running for mayor).

Your point is valid, but Bloomberg is a bad example.

Edited by Silasw on Nov 27th 2020 at 4:46:11 PM

@Pendrake: The problem with your "Lets just get along" idea is that some of us can't because Republicans and Trump voters have declared them an enemy. I mean I'm a Cis white, straight man so I don't personally have as much to worry about for my own life. But I have sibilings and close friends who would be endagered by that man's awful policies. I can speak to Republicans but there are limits to who I'll be friends with after Trump declared Trans and gay people lesser, declared Hispanic people targets and declared black people acceptable losses.

I don't really have any sympathy for a Republican who goes "boohoo why won't anyone be nice to me?" after that.

Edited by Wildcard on Nov 27th 2020 at 11:50:51 AM

Seeing conservative talking places like r/conservative and r/theDonald, TVT OTC threads are a beacon of good moderation.

r/conservative's moderation supports the idea that FOXNEWS is becoming a hard left communist state just because they reported reality that Arizona was going to Biden!

In general private businesses need to keep a better look on gathering places for Conservatives. Especially with the rise of Right Wing Terrorism America has suffered from the last five years.

And i can empathize with that.

That said, don't lump all Trump voters in with the Party. Every one of the friends I have that I know voted for him actually are pretty open-minded people. We have mutual friends that happen to be Trans and/or Homosexual, and I've never seen a problem, at least in relation to that aspect, anyways.

Edited by Pendrake on Nov 27th 2020 at 8:59:39 AM

Well, look at that, we got our left wing Fox after all.

Yeah, I have a few friends like that too, open minded on things like gay and trans rights, but still conservative economically.

I think this is part of the wider problem with the two party system, that all sorts of conservatives get lumped together in one party, and they then get defined by their worst parts, partly because the party itself is increasingly getting defined by its worst impulses.

Edited by Redmess on Nov 27th 2020 at 6:03:54 PM

I don't personally see how anyone can manage to be, know, or care about LGBT+ folks and vote Republican, for example. Or claim to care about women's rights and do the same. But I suppose cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.