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2020 mod notice:

Because this thread is a central OTC hub for lots of information and news, it is not likely to be locked.

However, for the same reason, the amount of panicking and fearmongering has more potential impact here.

If you are posting unsourced, inflammatory statements, or responding with "we're all doomed!", that is obviously and clearly damaging the quality of this thread. And you will be warned, your post mod-edited, thumped, or suspended if necessary.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Feb 6th 2020 at 4:18:00 PM

CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:17:31 AM

I'll be happy to have Trump become a Karma Houdini to stop his evil now. Let him live in a Russian half-finished Trump Tower like the Oncler.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 30th 2020 at 2:17:46 AM

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
M84 YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:18:34 AM

[up][up]Corporations are essentially profit engines. That's what they do: generate profit that powers the economy.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:26:52 AM

[up][up][up]. But on some level, isn’t that kinda the point? If companies decide that something like, I don’t know, supporting a woman’s right to choose, also makes good business sense, and will outweigh any negative backlash or economic impact, that’s a net good for society.

Edited by megaeliz on Jun 30th 2020 at 6:05:11 AM

Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:27:47 AM

They can be weathervanes of public opinion, sure.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:36:32 AM

I don't think Facebook is a faceless entity, though. Zuckerberg clearly puts his stamp on the company, and he is ultimately the one setting company policy. If Zuck wanted to, he could have done the right thing years ago.

So I'm not really buying the faceless corporation driven by greed entirely. A lot of those companies are run by charismatic businessmen that definitely have a face, and a strong grip on how their company operates.

Vote for Biden, or constitutional Chernobyl will come.
CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:38:09 AM

As Shepherd Book would say, "A government is made of people."

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
M84 YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:38:25 AM

Not if they're beholden to shareholders. They get to have a say too. That's the public part of IPO.

Edited by M84 on Jun 30th 2020 at 5:39:05 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ramidel Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:39:17 AM

[up][up][up]It's still a publically-traded corporation and his job is still to produce profit for himself and his fellow shareholders.

Welcome to American capitalism.

Edited by Ramidel on Jun 30th 2020 at 1:39:19 AM

Fiat justitia ruat caelum.
M84 YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:40:37 AM

Now, privately owned companies are a different matter.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:45:16 AM

The shareholders can sue the CEO for not actively trying to increase profits, btw. It's considered their legal duty.

Jun 30th 2020 at 2:56:47 AM

[up][up][up] It doesn’t change the fact they are still subject to societal pressures, like boycotts and the like.

the basic principal of boycotts/strikes/what-have-yous is literally making the current practices unprofitable, as a way to force change.

Edited by megaeliz on Jun 30th 2020 at 6:07:37 AM

Kayeka World's biggest wannabe from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:57:23 AM

The majority of stock transaction aren't even made by people, just computer algorithms. Which means they won't even care why corps make certain decisions, just that they need to "sell, sell, sell!" whenever the corp fails to significantly increase their annual profits.

Edited by Kayeka on Jun 30th 2020 at 11:58:44 AM

People say I have a problem with authority. I say that authority has a problem with me.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
Jun 30th 2020 at 3:19:10 AM

Founders and CE Os do still have the ability to push their own personal agenda via a company even once its publicly traded, they might end up fighting their own internal system but it’s the same as how a political leader can still push their own international agenda even though the mechanisms of a government are built around protecting that state’s self-interest. The system will fight back, but look at how Marvel refused to do female-lead superhero films because one of the bosses was a sexist jackass, it took a long time to get rid of the guy.

Zuck have given strong indications that he has a personal political agenda, more so I’d argue that other CEO’s that face heavy criticism in OTC, despite the jokes he’s not a robot, he’s a person with an agenda.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
M84 YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL
Jun 30th 2020 at 3:24:42 AM

The challenge they face once they decide to put up their stuff for an IPO is convincing the shareholders that following their agenda will earn them profit.

Zuckerberg's agenda seems to be nothing less than having control over data. All the data. He's also fixated on the idea that Facebook becoming an integral part of society (meaning more data to control). Zuckerberg might have an honest to goodness god complex. Thus his agenda with Facebook is to feed that complex.

Edited by M84 on Jun 30th 2020 at 6:29:08 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
Jun 30th 2020 at 3:30:19 AM

Sure and it’s why founders with strong ideological beliefs tend to get ousted or reigned in eventually, Papa John, Musk, ect...

But they very much do get the chance to push their ideology via the company for some time before the system fights back.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
M84 YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL
Jun 30th 2020 at 3:35:00 AM

That's in large part because shareholders initially usually get on board in the first place because they support the founder and think they are a good investment. So they'll start out trusting the founder's ideas at first.

But once the founder forgets that the company isn't solely their property anymore and acts like it...that's when the shareholders will remind them (sometimes harshly) that, no, it's not just their company anymore.

Edited by M84 on Jun 30th 2020 at 6:36:03 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Jun 30th 2020 at 3:45:14 AM

Yes, a lot of startup founders seem to have problems with the transition to large public company. They are used to running everything and having a say in everything, and having the final word. Elon Musk is a prime example of this with Tesla.

Vote for Biden, or constitutional Chernobyl will come.
Jun 30th 2020 at 3:53:11 AM

This is disturbing - people’s views on the economy have been completely divorced from actual facts: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/in-2008-everyone-thought-the-recession-was-bad-but-in-2020-many-americans-views-depend-on-their-party/

Over half of Republicans think the economy is good. And they’re especially likely to think the economy is good now (and bad under Obama) if they think “whites are oppressed” (i.e. if they’re hardcore racists).

Democrats, meanwhile, perceived the economy as getting worse throughout Trump’s entire term prior to coronavirus, even while all the economic indicators were trending upwards. (Look, I live in Canada. Our economies were doing the same things, except in Canada the Liberals were in power.)

In short, things are polarized to the point where “is the economy good?” is taken not as a question about either objective reality or personal experience, but as a proxy for “do you like the current president?”.

Edited by Galadriel on Jun 30th 2020 at 6:54:38 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
Jun 30th 2020 at 4:01:01 AM

I suspect that part of the divide is people using different definitions for what a good economy means, even once you remove the raw partisanship you’ve got disagreements around if you should define an economy as good because of high GDP? Because of the stock market doing well? Because of low-unemployment? Because of average incomes being higher? Low levels of private-debt? Increased economic mobility?

High GDP and low-unemployment doesn’t mean much if you’re seeing loads of people buried under a mountain of debt working three jobs

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
M84 YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL
Jun 30th 2020 at 4:02:50 AM

Most people who aren't economists don't actually get how the economy works. Their understanding of the economy boils down to whether they are doing well.

Edited by M84 on Jun 30th 2020 at 7:03:25 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Jun 30th 2020 at 4:04:33 AM

[up][up]I’m skeptical that economic mobility and household debt suddenly got worse the instant Trump was elected, which, if you look at the charts, is the exact moment Democrats’ views of the economy started trending downward.

And here’s a Social Security Administration chart showing that average and median wages followed about the same upward trend under both Obama and Trump, with very little change between presidents: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

[up] It’s not even that - there’s no freaking way over half of Republicans are doing economically well now.

Edited by Galadriel on Jun 30th 2020 at 7:09:41 AM

M84 YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL
Jun 30th 2020 at 4:05:47 AM

TBF, the Democratic Party's views didn't trend down nearly as quickly as the GOP's trended up.

Also, don't forget the largest demographics among Republicans. They are usually pretty well off ("economic" anxiety aside) white suburbanites.

Edited by M84 on Jun 30th 2020 at 7:07:34 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
BearyScary Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Jun 30th 2020 at 4:06:52 AM

I think that some people love Trump even if their finances haven't improved under his administration.

My blog--an ode to the history of video games
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Jun 30th 2020 at 4:08:40 AM

Lets see if they still think it is good when it starts affecting them personally.

Vote for Biden, or constitutional Chernobyl will come.
M84 YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL
Jun 30th 2020 at 4:08:44 AM

[up][up]People often vote for reasons other than their wallet. After all, we've got rich Democratic voters who vote blue despite the fact that the GOP offers more tax cuts for them.

For a lot of GOP voters, maintaining the power structures that favor white people is what matters more, even if they won't actually admit that's what they are doing.

Edited by M84 on Jun 30th 2020 at 7:10:59 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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