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CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:27:46 PM

Those aren't really arguments for more private schools, but rather for improving public schools.

And the private school system was created as a bandage until the time that the United States removes the racism, classicism, poverty, and safety issues of the American education system.

When we have them fixed, then we can talk about limiting parents options to protect their children and make sure they can get a better education.

I was the richest kid at Saint Josephs in Ironton, Oh (and God did I get shit for it) from the mostly poor working class Irish Catholic inhabitants of the place. The public school was also completely falling apart and I mean that in a literal way. The water was once poisoned for a week.

Saint Josephs wasn't great but it was safe and you could drink the water.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
AceofSpades Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:28:31 PM

The problem, Charles, that you don't seem to realize is that a lot of these proponents for "school choice" are in fact draining funds from public education and in many cases forcing a decision on parents who should be able to trust that their local schools will provide everything needed for their children, and leaving those who literally cannot afford to make that decision in the dirt.

A position that many have repeated in this thread but that you seem to have missed. What is desired is for the GOP to STOP CRIPPLING PUBLIC EDUCATION. Because most of that stuff you just mentioned? Ought to be made widely available, and not just for the rich, or for those who scrimp and save just to send their kids there. All kids ought to be safe in any school, no one should have to decide to spend thousands of dollars just to make sure their child is safe.

(And my point wasn't that the book is a bad example, I haven't read it. My point is that people were talking about this as a serious subject and citing a fictional example seems really disrespectful considering the impact that this topic has on people's lives. Also kind of lazy.)

[up]Uh, considering that private schools were, and are in large part populated by white students kind of belies the reason you think private schools exist. Like, it's ok to like private schools, but you're kind of conferring something close to sainthood on them.

Edited by AceofSpades on Feb 10th 2019 at 12:29:53 PM

CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:29:04 PM

I feel like people have missed every time someone brings up charter schools, I take a moment to tell how much I hate the GOP and how its a scam.

Mitch Mc Connell for some insane reason wants to make the majority of Kentuckians barely able to read and write.

It's such....puppy kicking evil.

It's not just medicine he wants to stop getting to them, welfare, foodstamps, and any government assistance but education too as well as relief from opiods. It's really a desire to kill the poor.

It's just private schools are a way to step out of their range of fire and are sometimes a way to keep the kids from being dependent on the government for their education because the government is untrustworthy and does not have their interests at heart.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 10th 2019 at 10:31:06 AM

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
AceofSpades Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:31:17 PM

And we feel like you're ignoring our points on the topic that we're currently discussing. Because declaring that you hate the GOP every post doesn't mean you're not doing that.

M84 'Til all are one from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
'Til all are one
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:31:45 PM

[up][up]That's because you've spent the last several posts trying to argue in favor of private schools. And the push for more privatization in the USA's education system is a bit of a problem.

And your bandage analogy is flawed for the reasons Ace mentioned. It'd be more like if the bandage is a dirty one that is actually making the wound worse while covering it up.

Edited by M84 on Feb 11th 2019 at 2:33:03 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:31:50 PM

IMO It's largely a consumption thing. But I am not entirely sure if we can blame the people who have to make a spending decision, when it's easier to blame the people who make those products in the first place.

I mean we can, but basically everything we buy and use is screwing over someone else and propping up a system we don't what. And that doesn't mean "stop trying everything's bad" it means "individualist based activism might not be what's the most important here".

Maybe private schools can exist in a true and just world, maybe they can't, but until we take out the massive issues they're doing, we won't know.

Edited by MrAHR on Feb 10th 2019 at 1:32:47 PM

buy my book!
CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:33:13 PM

Sorry, I feel irritated I have to bring them up every time but they're resposible for a War on Education in my state.

https://www.kentucky.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/tom-eblen/article195742574.html

And if you think I'm joking?

Sure, he talks a good game. In his Jan. 16 budget address, Bevin made a big deal out of saying he had preserved the basic funding formula for Kentucky’s public schools.

What the Republican governor didn’t say, but was evident when people actually read his budget proposal for the next two years, was that he plans to under-fund and undermine public education in dozens of ways, both large and small.

Bevin wants the General Assembly to cut $198 million from K-12 education, mostly by shifting more transportation and insurance costs to local school districts, as if they can afford it. He wants to cut an additional $72 million from higher education. And he wants to eliminate state funding for 70 programs, at least 44 of which support education.

Then this.

He also singled out the state’s two largest districts, Jefferson and Fayette counties, claiming they have too many highly paid employees who don’t work with students. This attack was an apparent attempt to justify requiring all school districts to cut administrative costs by 12 percent in 2018-2019 and another 12 percent in 2019-2020.

Fayette County Superintendent Manny Caulk called Bevin’s accusations “misleading and untrue.” Jefferson County’s acting superintendent, Marty Pollio, said 63 percent of the highly paid people Bevin referred to in his district work full-time with students.

The school system is dying in Kentucky and we're all looking for ways to help the people in it now.

Like with literal hunger, private schools are immune to government cutbacks and Kill the Poor policies.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 10th 2019 at 10:35:30 AM

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
M84 'Til all are one from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
'Til all are one
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:34:56 PM

[up]That's not really an argument against public education or an argument for private education.

That's an argument for kicking the GOP out of Kentucky.

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Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:35:29 PM

@M84: Exactly my point. Making the state the only source of education makes it easier for the state to take that right away. Education is a powerful tool for indoctrination.

At best, there's also the issue that one size really can't fit all here-so having specialized private schools makes sense.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Feb 10th 2019 at 10:36:38 AM

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
M84 'Til all are one from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
'Til all are one
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:36:30 PM

[up]Except a state isn't supposed to take that right away. They are supposed to protect rights. If it does, then it's failed as a state.

If you're worried that your government is going to brainwash your kid, you change the government. By voting.

Edited by M84 on Feb 11th 2019 at 2:37:05 AM

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CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:37:00 PM

I apologize, my arguments have been incoherent and not addressing your points.

The fact they're removing another 200 million dollars from education in my state just makes me think that the people in the state need to figure out a way around the government since it's so manifestly not looking after its interests.

Again, I should mention my state's teachers have had mass strikes and walk outs already over the nonexistent funding they have as well as insufficient living wages.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 10th 2019 at 10:37:50 AM

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:37:29 PM

Education is a powerful tool for indoctrination, but I don't trust private groups more than I do the state

SeptimusHeap MOD from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:38:02 PM

The Education Thread is hereaway. If people want to have a general education discussion and this is a general discussion, they should have it there.

M84 'Til all are one from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
'Til all are one
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:39:17 PM

[up][up][up]And as we keep saying, that's not really an argument for any point besides "The GOP in Kentucky is shit".

Edited by M84 on Feb 11th 2019 at 2:39:36 AM

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AceofSpades Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:46:06 PM

OK well I changed my post since the modhat has appeared.

I'm just going to say Charles, that yes we believe you. But that's not a reason to privatize education. Privatizing everything is basically a goal of the GOP, which we've seen in other areas such as health care and prisons tends to lead to serious fucking issues. What you think is a solution is, at best a short term treatment for a long term problem.

If you want to help teachers in your state you'd do better by voting in their favor rather than saddling them with more problem.

Edit: There is no short term, easy solution to this issue, btw. And looking for one is just going to hurt us in the long run.

Edited by AceofSpades on Feb 10th 2019 at 12:47:20 PM

CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:49:06 PM

I'm not sure if the subject is completely forbidden now so I'll answer any further points in education.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
Gilphon Trustworthy from The Third Sound Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Trustworthy
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:50:54 PM

I believe what Charles isn't quite saying here is that 'kick the GOP out of Kentucky, the reddest state in the country' feels like a less practical solution to him than 'make sure there are schools that can survive a hostile government'.

"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."
CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:55:10 PM

Pretty much.

Mind you, I half wonder if the GOP hates education in part so it can keep states red these days.

War, food, and information control are the tools of a evil regime.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 10th 2019 at 10:56:21 AM

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
M84 'Til all are one from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
'Til all are one
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:56:16 PM

[up][up]It is however the only one, since privatizing the entirety of Kentucky's education isn't really an option either.

[up]It's probably "just" due to the GOP's trademark hatred of public spending when it comes to anything but military stuff.

Edited by M84 on Feb 11th 2019 at 2:57:00 AM

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CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:56:59 PM

I'm not in favor of privatizing it.

I'm saying efforts are better spent going after other parties than private schools.

Private schools are created by public institutions (including religions) in part to shore up the poor and working class as well as the rich. They're a result of a need that I see no sign of going away anytime soon.

Also I was trying to dispel (badly) the idea they were purely the product of wealthier families getting a special advantage.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 10th 2019 at 10:58:59 AM

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
M84 'Til all are one from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
'Til all are one
Feb 10th 2019 at 10:59:52 PM

[up]Private schools are not created by public institutions. That's kind of contrary to the definition of it. Unless you're working with a different definition of public institution.

Wikipedia's definition of public instituion.

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CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
M84 'Til all are one from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
'Til all are one
Feb 10th 2019 at 11:02:07 PM

[up]That's not really a public institution though. Last time I checked churches in the USA aren't state-sponsored. They are however effectively public charities, which is where they get their tax-exempt status from.

Edited by M84 on Feb 11th 2019 at 3:05:43 AM

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nombretomado MOD the formatting mod Relationship Status: P.S. I love you
the formatting mod
Ultimatum ◕ ◡ ◕ Disasturbator from England Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
◕ ◡ ◕ Disasturbator
Feb 11th 2019 at 4:05:29 AM

Study Shows Richest 0.00025% Owns More Wealth Than Bottom 150 Million Americans

I'll be honest when I see a headline involving statistics I tend to not understand it,but the gist of it is more wealth inequality

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