The General US Politics Thread

Yeah, there may be an ideological divide between Trump and the rest of the Republicans on certain topics and how they should be handled, which sometimes causes friction and conflict between the two parties (which is the only thing that got us through 2017 and 2018 intact), but they're still on the same side and allied with each other.

Trump hates certain Republicans, that much seems obvious, but he and the Party overall seem to get along fine, because they bond over their shared hatred of brown and poor people.

All Donald did was remove the mask of respectability the GOP had been wearing. He and the republican politicians may not necessarily always get along, but in the end they all bend the knee because republicans are servile.

That requires the belief Evil Is One Big, Happy Family.

Trump can hate the Republicans and pursue his own agenda while the Republicans are forced to go along because he's massively popular in their base (middle class and rich white assholes) while they are not.

That doesn't mean they're not evil assholes themselves.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 16th 2018 at 11:09:19 AM

More than hatred, they bonded over one thing they love the most: power and trump get them that power so they are bonded to it whatever they liked or not.

Or to use a warhammer allegory here: Trump is a ork and he just come around and beat the biggest republican warboss and now HE is the boss, the rest are gretchin and squig farmers.

I admit is not the best allegory but the only one I could come out with.

The Orks have some honour. The GOP doesn't.

I think the best comparison is Skaven. The GOP reminds me a lot of Skavenblight.

> All Donald did was remove the mask of respectability the GOP had been wearing

I don't think they ever wore such a mask,people always knew they were ugly but Trump made them even more hideous

Except you said that Trump hates the Republican Party, which is patently ridiculous. Why would he hate the party that he solidly controls?

Furthermore, he has no problem with Republicans who give him fealty and adulation.

I don't think your view of the Trump-Republicans relationship is particularly accurate.

I think it's a stretch to say Trump "hates" the Republican party. I do think it's accurate to say he's pretty indifferent to them.

Trump doesnt hate the Republican Party. He's given them practically everything they wanted, and continues to do so. He continues to be a loose cannon, who reacts impulsively without foresight or understanding to whatever he hears when he hears it. Im sure the Rep Party leadership slap their foreheads everytime he goes off script ("Trump Shutdown"), but overall its been a mutually beneficial relationship.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/15/us/guatemalan-girls-father/index.html

The story with that girl that died in BP custody seems to have been taken completely wrong. Looks like she was dehydrated and starving before they took her in, and was only in custody for 8 hours or so.

Trump is a lose canon and he will be annoynce in other party but he is the boss of he party right now and almost everything move around him, something the republicans dont want but cant do anything about it.

They had eight hours in which to access her and get tube feeding and a saline drip hooked up. Even if she was already far gone: no excuse. The second she was taken into custody, her care became their responsibility, not her father's (worse, the guy tried to draw their attention to her increasingly dire plight and was ignored).

End of story.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Dec 16th 2018 at 10:06:39 AM

Maybe we should back up and consider a father that treks his daughter through miles of desert and throws her at border patrol agents when they get there isn't that great? Maybe we shouldn't blame the agents, especially considering they did all they could, and he refused medical treatment in Mexico itself?

I'm just asking you to look at this from another perspective.

So what would you have proposed? Go right past them and find a nice hotel to stay in or something?

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Dec 16th 2018 at 5:10:24 AM

And, maybe you shouldn't victim blame, either?

People make mistakes, sure. And, that poor father made a big one. But, other people ignored his little girl for eight hours during which she was fading away.

That is on them. A child, no matter her background, no matter who her parents are, deserves better than that.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Dec 16th 2018 at 10:15:23 AM

If she was dehydrated and starving, why exactly didn't they bring her as an emergency into the next hospital the moment she was in their custody?

And I wouldn't be too hard on the father without context. Who knows what he fled from. I somehow doubt that he deliberately starved her.

Can we not just toss buzzwords around? I think we're a little bit better than that. His daughter died because of what he did. That is 100% a fact.

I'm going to take a break from this thread to cool off.

Edited by Friendperson on Dec 16th 2018 at 2:15:16 AM

I think it's possible to say that multiple people have responsibility, the father is one of them certainly but I care about what agents of the US government did or didn't do far more, simply because they represent the United States and thus whatever they do reflects on the nation to one degree or another.

You don't know what the reasons of the father were. Most people who track through deserts are already pretty desperate. But Border Control not only isn't desperate, they are acting in the name of the government, and their job should be to fiercely protect the people who end up in their custody, not letting them die. If they had done whatever they could to help her, we wouldn't have been this discussion. It would be another tragic case of a refugee dying.

Edited by Swanpride on Dec 16th 2018 at 2:19:35 AM

From the article, in case you didn't read it:

"The consul said the father, Nery Gilberto Caal, told him agents did everything they possibly could to help his daughter, Jakelin Caal Maquin, after she became sick on a a bus. The bus traveled from the Antelope Wells port of entry in New Mexico to a Border Patrol station in Lordsburg, New Mexico, about 90 minutes away."

"Caal did not speak to the media Saturday, but in a statement issued by his lawyers, he said he was "grateful for the many first responders that tried to save young Jakelin's life in New Mexico and Texas."

Also, just because they're government workers doesn't mean they're not people. They're not autocratic robots gunning down minorities, they're doing what they can.

And if that's true then the agents should not be blamed, still, the point that they represent the US government stands. Therefore it's only right that they should face high levels of scrutiny.

I agree with the "if that's true" bit, alright. I'm jaded by my background of having the South African border authorities and normal police getting people close to somebody who died in custody to swear blind for the record that they did, indeed, fall down the stairs and that every measure was taken to ensure their survival. And, no, they have not been intimidated into making these statements by threats both implied or delivered. And, no: no carpet was involved to minimise visible injury.

I'm going to wait before judging.

As well as morn a little girl caught up in something she didn't understand, and who got an end that could have been avoided any number of ways, poor mite.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Dec 16th 2018 at 11:03:28 AM

Guys, concerning Friendperson: I told you so.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Dec 16th 2018 at 6:55:06 AM

Friendperson, what you said and what the article you linked to said are contradictory. You said she was starving and dehydrated when picked up, but the article says she had adequate food and water for the journey.

It also says BP had the dad sign document about her health in English, which he couldn't speak or read.