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Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#26: Nov 7th 2011 at 10:26:13 AM

If something's an ongoing series, don't judge the villains in the first book. The first book is there to introduce you to the main characters and The 'Verse first, the villains second. Villains tend to get development later on.

Fight smart, not fair.
DomaDoma Three-Puppet Saluter Since: Jan, 2001
Three-Puppet Saluter
#27: Nov 7th 2011 at 10:46:34 AM

And the second book introduced Yu, Theismann and the Grayson-Masada conflict, so... yeah.

Hail Martin Septim!
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#28: Dec 10th 2011 at 12:45:13 PM

ARC of A Rising Thunder is out. *feels the temptation**is already suffering from dresden files withdrawal and has yesterday finished Snuff* bah!

edited 10th Dec '11 5:05:06 PM by 3of4

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Musoeun Left Hand of Justice from Alexandria, VA Since: Jan, 2001
Left Hand of Justice
#29: May 28th 2012 at 6:39:31 PM

I actually bought ART, read it, enjoyed it, and yet... and yet. (This is where I just spoiler everything: the thread is really short so I'm assuming people won't have read the entire series.)

Weber has this problem where he has too many ideas and not the self-discipline to contain things, and I think he's about a millimeter away from having written himself into a corner. Examples:

Honor herself. She's so promoted now that she's not a "useful" protagonist, and while Weber's handled her POV bits reasonably well, he hasn't managed to thoroughly transition away from her as a central character. Not killing her off was probably his worst decision so far.

The treecats. It got a bit ridiculous when Honor started turning into a telepath. It got more ridiculous when the cats started talking. Now in ART we have them turning into anti-genetic-adjustment-detectors? Speaking of which...

Adjustment. As a plot device, the ultimate weapon of the mysterious, nefarious, uber-bad guys, it was actually a fantastic idea. Now the body count is mounting, and it's turning into a way to get rid of potential loose ends. So it's becoming absurd, and incidentally making Mesa out to be implausibly overpowered.

Still, all of those things can be managed by minimizing them progressively - retcon by ignoring. What's going to be a major plot problem is Laocoon. Even if Weber doesn't realize it, Manticore's overplaying its hand and becoming the expansionists everyone was all worried about/sanctimonious about not being for the last half dozen books.

Unless that's the plan. I guess that's kind of a side-effect of what Weber does: he's big on pointing out that there are always good and bad people on both sides of an argument. But it makes for messy story-telling.

Oh, and a movie is a terrible idea.

edited 28th May '12 6:41:28 PM by Musoeun

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#30: May 29th 2012 at 12:41:12 AM

I think a miniseries would be nice. I'm starting to go into Space Opera withdrawls.

Fight smart, not fair.
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#31: Jun 1st 2012 at 12:51:51 AM

@Musoeun: I very much agree with all that.

(mild spoilers, that IMO don't ruin a thing)

I think Weber's inability to let Honor evolve as a character is by now badly clashing with his much better understanding of how military promotion works in a military service that has suffered the prolonged wars Manticore has. Honor literally cannot be promoted any higher at this point and remain what she is; a great combat officer, but totally and utterly temperamentally unsuited to any other role.

Honor's future has to involve one of these options:

  1. Death in combat, but Weber drew back from this, unable to do it.
  2. Essentially a "nothing" career from now on, promoted to a rank and responsibility too high to get to do anything short of the imminent destruction of Manticore itself, again — and Weber's done that way too recently to do it again in a hurry. She'll stay there until they push her into retirement from combat duty; at that point it's either Commandant of Saganami Island or retirement as Steadholder on Grayson.
  3. Changing. Heavens forbid. Because the only interesting career past this point involves politics, because that's the actual promotion out of her current position. Any more senior role involves becoming essentially a politician, whether in uniform or not. But Weber's never allowed her to emotionally grow up enough to be able to do this. Out of combat, she's still a goddamn teenager in many respects.

And I think the problem with the last is largely that Weber can get away with his very simplistic right-wing view of politics when his lead character isn't a political type — but it's going to have to become more nuanced if he pushes Honor in that (logical) direction, and he doesn't want to / isn't able to.

edited 1st Jun '12 12:53:42 AM by Morven

A brighter future for a darker age.
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#32: Jan 30th 2013 at 11:11:43 AM

Probably not of much interest here, given the line of conversation previously, but Nov 1-3 there's going to be Honorcon in Greenville, SC.

(The annual invite-only meetings of the working group Weber uses was named "Honorcon", but given the 20th anniversary of On Basilisk Station they agreed to give the name to a public con.)

Fortunately for me, it's like a 20 minute drive down US-29note , so I can skip the $129 (plus taxes/fees) a night room costs.

All your safe space are belong to Trump
BleiddWhitefalcon Since: Feb, 2011
#33: Jan 30th 2013 at 11:15:28 AM

Cool. I won't be able to make it, unfortunately, but you go have fun smile

Suits my state of mind right now...
JohnPotts Since: Sep, 2012
#34: Mar 13th 2013 at 2:12:12 PM

I always thought that it would be more interesting to have Honor take Hamish's role as First Lord/Minister of War and have him go out on missions as Admiral White Haven (DW does mention that they routinely rotate Admirals between the Admiralty and active status). Have her direct overall strategy rather than ship based tactics - we never saw Esther Mc Queen "in action", but she clearly kicked ass at strategy (shame she died, really), so take her as a model.

As for who should play her - I'd go for Famke Janssen. She's a little old for the early Honor, but she's about the right age for her now (of course, by the time they get around to the latest books she'd be about seventy, if they make all twelve books).

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#35: Mar 13th 2013 at 2:20:59 PM

[up] The Routine rotation was a peace-time measure. One which they did not do during the war because people like pulling people like Lucien Cortez from their position would have been madness.

During the shooting they, basically, need people who know their job at the point they are.

Also, strategic decisions are the job of the First Space Lord, not the First Lord of the Admirality. His job is more like general policy which the First Space Lord translates into strategy.

also, the First Lord is a civilian position. If she got the job she'd have to retire...and frankly it would have been stupid to that to their best fleet commander.

edited 13th Mar '13 2:22:37 PM by 3of4

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JohnPotts Since: Sep, 2012
#36: Mar 14th 2013 at 8:10:03 AM

Well Hamish is no slouch as an Admiral, so they'd be gaining one and losing one active Admiral (though there'd be the added complication of what happens in the GSN). The Manties do need to groom their next generation of the Admiralty as well as lower ranked officers (it would be like when Honor gave up being a Captain to step up to Commodore in In Enemy Hands).

Like the idea of "Operation Lacoon" making the Manties look like the baddies of the scenario.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#37: Mar 14th 2013 at 8:15:15 AM

[up] What do you think they are doing with Scotty, Terekhov etc in Talbot? Thats their next generation of Admirals. And Abigail and contemporaries are the one after that.

And with prolong, the "need to groom" is not as pressing as it would be for us. Though Caparelli really deserves a vacation after Manticore conquers the galaxy. tongue

Also, Admirals are not interchangeable. White Haven is, generally, better at overall strategy while Honor is the better fleet commander, I'd say.

edited 14th Mar '13 8:20:32 AM by 3of4

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JohnPotts Since: Sep, 2012
#38: Mar 18th 2013 at 11:04:08 AM

From a strategic POV, they probably don't need to groom the next generation of Mantie Admiralty - it was more an answer to the question "What next?" There really are no new challenges for Honor to face without making a radical change. As I said, Esther Mc Queen managed to make an impression as Havenite War Minister despite never being seen actually in ship to ship combat (where apparently she was a genius, as per Hamish's report). Maybe a government reshuffle caused by Caparelli's stress induced heart attack leading to his retirement (though in that case, Hamish would be more likely to take a government role than Honor, of course).

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#39: Mar 18th 2013 at 2:51:58 PM

Being the lead frontline CO of Operation "Break the Sollies." is not a Challenge, once said Sollies get their butt in motion?

Also, I'd actually don't mind if Honor herself gets slowly put out of focus for other characters. I like the Universe and have no specific need for Honor to be the main protagonist.

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KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#40: Mar 18th 2013 at 4:42:58 PM

[up] Breaking the Sollies is not a challenge, at least not at the moment, given the way Mike Henke has been handing them their asses in Talbott. Given enough missiles (which may be a problem at the moment) any given Manticoran (and/or Grayson) fleet could probably blow through the entire Battle Fleet in an entire afternoon if they were polite enough to all gather in one place. Heck any given Havenite fleet could probably do it at this stage, though they'd probably need a few extra hours.

The real question is how much of Battle Fleet they're going to lose before they wake up, and that may take a while given their current track record.

Though yes, once they do realise how badly they're outclassed and start trying to correct that, the SLN is going to be dangerous. However there is going to be a rather noticable gap between them realising and being actually able to do anything about it, especially given the infighting in the League's parliament and bureaucratic inertia.

And this is without Mike Henke being a big old spanner in the works vis a vis Mesa.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#41: Mar 18th 2013 at 4:48:33 PM

The Question after that Question is "How much of the League can Manticore take on before the rest starts getting serious."

And then we have the Renaissance Factor and whatever fleet Mesa is cooking off in Darwin.

Hmm both the next mainline book (Beowulf plebiscite) and the Saganami (Attack on Mesa) are going to be...interesting.

Though I have an Idea for a one-shot spinoff book: In an attempt to secure some MDM-tech, the Sollies decide to simply "take" it from the only Power who possesses them which is not part of the Grand Alliance: The Andermani Empire.

(yes, I want a Chien-Lu Anderman book!)

edited 18th Mar '13 4:50:25 PM by 3of4

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Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#42: Nov 2nd 2013 at 5:25:25 AM

Honorcon has been interesting so far, with Evergreen doing presentations on what they have planned for expanding the Honorverse beyond the books (movie tentatively scheduled for 2016, preceded by a "Tales of Honor" comic starting next March, mobile gaming, and some other stuff) and Weber dropping various bits of info not in the books (or not yet in them, anyway), including info about DuQquense (of the DuQuense plan) and a lot of the pre-Pierre Legislaturalists being Mesan Alpha lines, planted centuries earlier for Haven manipulation purposes before the CPS coup blew away much of the old system that was part of the Mesan Allignment's plan.

^ Funny you should mention that... one of the panels later today is "'Szechuan Bratwurst': The Andermani Empire and culture", which I'm planning on attending.

edited 2nd Nov '13 5:34:38 AM by Nohbody

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3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#43: Nov 2nd 2013 at 7:59:36 AM

I assume a lot of that will come in the future Companion Books? I demand detailed informations!

;)

edited 2nd Nov '13 7:59:45 AM by 3of4

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Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#44: Nov 2nd 2013 at 8:56:34 PM

IIRC, Haven and Andermani Empire are currently scheduled to be together in one companion book, with the Sollies getting their own book and Grayson getting one.

As for the panel, not too much info that's not already out there, with some "tum-te-tum-tums" as to where the Andermanis are going in regards to Mesa. One thing I don't recall if it's been mentioned in the novels, though: AE is "withdrawing" from the Grand Alliance in a public manner as part of a gambit to leave them the option of passing through Sollie space without fighting on their way to Mesan territory to put a boot up the MAN's collective ass. Still working with the GA, just not publicly part of it.

All your safe space are belong to Trump
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#45: Nov 3rd 2013 at 5:56:27 AM

[up]It was discussed with Rabenstrange in Rising Thunder i think.

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3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#46: Jan 3rd 2014 at 4:37:20 PM

Doublepost but:

http://www.baenebooks.com/p-2281-a-call-to-duty-earc.aspx Apparently Baen made a Christmas present :) Its the eARC for the first Zahn Spinoff

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Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#47: Jan 4th 2014 at 1:07:11 AM

Too bad I don't do e-arcs. tongue

(Nothing against the authors that do them, but paying extra for typoes and such is not what I consider a good investment, no matter how anxious I may be to read a work.)

All your safe space are belong to Trump
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#48: Jan 4th 2014 at 4:41:59 AM

I don't mind them, i can read past most spelling errors and the like. But to each their own :)

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3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#49: Jan 23rd 2014 at 7:36:46 AM

For anyone who's interested: Snippets for Cauldron of Ghosts

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edgewalker22 Lawful neutral Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
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#50: Jan 25th 2014 at 10:24:09 AM

This is a little odd, but after watching Madoka Magica, why can't I stop picturing Nimitz as Kyubey?


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