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Discussion about renaming: Nakama

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Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#1851: Jul 15th 2011 at 6:13:54 PM

Wow, True Companions now has 400 yes votes, and finally has more total votes than Framily (577 vs. 544). I'm guessing that both those numbers are record-setting.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#1852: Jul 16th 2011 at 2:09:05 PM

Just a reminder for the weekend voters: this is going to be the target of a global search-and-replace on the database after the decision is complete. That means the ideal candidate should work as well as possible in sentences where Nakama currently appears. It should:

  • be a noun phrase that means "group of people", so sentences like "The X set forth" or "Bob joined the X" still work.
  • work as the target of a possessive, so "Joe and his X set forth" still works (this tends to exclude suggestions starting with "The").
  • be gender neutral ("Sally and her X"), and work with monsters or fluffy bunnies.

All the current top candidates meet these criteria, so it's not a big deal, but there are some examples hovering in the green that absolutely won't work, like Thicker Than Blood. ("Fluffy Wuffy and her Thicker Than Blood hopped away?")

Friends Like Family has some additional minor issues. The preposition "like" doesn't bind the words very strongly, which can lead to mild confusion. "Eustace joined the Friends Like Family at dawn" may cause someone to wonder what a "family at dawn" is, and how the friends are like one. "The Friends Like Family had sex with each other till dawn" is downright squicky. :)

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
Artemis92 Cogito Gratia Cogitan from contemplation Since: Dec, 2009
Cogito Gratia Cogitan
#1853: Jul 16th 2011 at 2:19:26 PM

[up] I thought Nakama would just stay as a redirect?

Ponders too much; thinks too little. Currently goes by Knowlessman.
CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#1854: Jul 16th 2011 at 2:21:28 PM

It will. But redirects are for searching, not for potholing. The potholes should all be the actual name, unless a specific circumstance specifically requires a specific redirect (which is very very rare to see). Normally, the wicks are manually changed, in this case though that would take a very long time so a database replacement is better.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
BioTube Since: Dec, 1969
#1855: Jul 16th 2011 at 8:47:19 PM

The idea of 's/nakama/$WINNER/g' was what actually made me propose kith - about the only things it could break would be haikus and ordering. But it was not to be.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#1856: Jul 16th 2011 at 11:46:39 PM

So how long will the name selection vote be up out of curiosity. It is still looking like True Companions.

Who watches the watchmen?
Daremo Misanthrope Supreme from Parts Unknown Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
#1857: Jul 17th 2011 at 1:40:00 AM

Nakama should definitely be mentioned in the description. Changing the name isn't going to change the multi-thousand outside links, and I can tell you from personal experience that coming to a page different from your intended destination is a disconcerting phenomenon.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.
Catalogue A pocketful of saudade. from where the good times are Since: Sep, 2009
A pocketful of saudade.
#1858: Jul 17th 2011 at 1:46:13 AM

It should. Maybe as a note near the end.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
Worldmaker Title? What Title? Since: Jun, 2010
Title? What Title?
#1860: Jul 17th 2011 at 4:06:47 AM

It will. But redirects are for searching, not for potholing. The potholes should all be the actual name, unless a specific circumstance specifically requires a specific redirect (which is very very rare to see). Normally, the wicks are manually changed, in this case though that would take a very long time so a database replacement is better.

Whoa... that was a policy change. Time was, no one had a problem if a redirect title was used on a page as a pothole.

edited 17th Jul '11 4:06:59 AM by Worldmaker

Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
CrypticMirror Cryptic Mirror from Scotland Since: Jan, 2001
#1861: Jul 17th 2011 at 4:24:23 AM

[up]Yeah, redirects have always been an allowable use. In fact we cull and cutlist unused redirects. If it is a valid redirect then Tropers should be free to use it, it's just the name that appears on the page that is important. Apart from anything else if a new name cannot garner enough support to be used as the trope name, then it too is probably a bad name.

edited 17th Jul '11 4:25:34 AM by CrypticMirror

Daremo Misanthrope Supreme from Parts Unknown Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
#1862: Jul 17th 2011 at 3:51:02 PM

What Cryptic said. I've used Ohana, and Like Family where they were stylistically called for, and plan to use Nakama where appropriate. Redirects are about searchabilty, but also options. Options was the specific reason Nakama had so many redirects in the first place(was anyone really searching for Coterie?)

edited 17th Jul '11 3:53:28 PM by Daremo

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1863: Jul 17th 2011 at 3:54:51 PM

[up] People who play Vampire The Requiem.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#1864: Jul 17th 2011 at 4:04:26 PM

[up][up]I suspect the only place where Nakama would be considered appropriate is in the article about One Piece, since that's the fandom that misuses it. It's not appropriate for other anime/manga, since the Japanese term doesn't actually mean this, and isn't used in this sense in Japan.

(As an analogy: it's as if some Japanese fans of Barney And Friends had decided to create an article named Friends about kids who admire you and sing along with your songs.)

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1865: Jul 17th 2011 at 4:50:23 PM

True Companions is at a 2.11 ratio now. sad

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#1866: Jul 17th 2011 at 4:58:31 PM

2.12 where I'm looking. Which puts it slightly ahead of FriendsLikeFamily ratio-wise.

edited 17th Jul '11 4:59:14 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#1868: Jul 17th 2011 at 5:18:44 PM

The actual number of positive votes is far, far higher for TC. That has to be the winner with no run off.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#1869: Jul 17th 2011 at 5:44:30 PM

Friends Like Family just dropped below a ratio of 2. True Companions is definitely the strongest contender at the moment.

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nuclearneo577 from My computer. Since: Dec, 2009
Artemis92 Cogito Gratia Cogitan from contemplation Since: Dec, 2009
Cogito Gratia Cogitan
#1871: Jul 17th 2011 at 5:46:27 PM

Friends Beyond Measure is only going further down. sad

Yeah, by now, I'm just watching the rest of the list. 'S kind of foregone at this point, I think.

Ponders too much; thinks too little. Currently goes by Knowlessman.
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#1872: Jul 17th 2011 at 5:51:01 PM

[up]Trust me, as the guy who actually first proposed Friends Beyond Measure so many posts ago, I'm sad to see it take that beating. That said, True Companions is not bad, and I have no problems using it.

EDIT: The one I've been watching most closely is "Jaynes" actually... I figure it was added by someone who doesn't realize that character-named tropes aren't happening anymore... that, and that might be even more obtuse than "Nakama." I'm somewhat disappointed it isn't last.

edited 17th Jul '11 5:53:04 PM by 32_Footsteps

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#1873: Jul 17th 2011 at 5:56:22 PM

IS it too late to propose a new potential title?

Do not obey in advance.
JackAlsworth Since: Jul, 2009
#1874: Jul 17th 2011 at 5:57:53 PM

No, but it's not likely to garner enough support at this point.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#1875: Jul 17th 2011 at 5:58:20 PM

[up]Technically, no. Practically, yes.

There's nothing to stop you from adding a title, but it's almost certainly not going to win at this point.

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AlternativeTitles: Nakama
11th Jul '11 8:18:19 PM

Crown Description:

Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.

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