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Discussion about renaming: Nakama

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#26: Jul 9th 2011 at 6:01:49 AM

Okay it seems like enough people agree with the idea to warrant a single proposition crowner, no? So here it is.

BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#27: Jul 9th 2011 at 6:09:07 AM

Crowner hooked.

Incidentally, strongly in favour of the rename. Completely incomprehensible to English speakers, misleading to Japanese speakers, and meaningful only to people who have already read and understood the article.

Oh and a subset of One-Piece fans I guess.

edited 9th Jul '11 6:10:52 AM by BobbyG

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joeyjojojuniorshabadoo Since: Nov, 2010
#28: Jul 9th 2011 at 6:25:15 AM

Dear God yes, so glad we're finally doing something about this.

Also, I hadn't actually read the description in years until today, but it amuses me how it basically admits that "camaraderie" means the same thing, given the arguments in favor of the current name.

Unshakable Camaraderie works for me.

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
BrightBlueInk It's all a conspiracy. from Colorado, USA Since: Jan, 2001
It's all a conspiracy.
#30: Jul 9th 2011 at 6:32:21 AM

Definitely like Unshakable Camaraderie. (Outside of the fact that I can see myself typoing that name sometimes, but that's easy enough to fix.)

Current project: Cleaning up the Chrono Crusade examples one at a time. God help me.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#31: Jul 9th 2011 at 6:48:22 AM

Unshakable Camaraderie is a nice one. Very much for the rename.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#32: Jul 9th 2011 at 7:25:02 AM

I guess this one FINALLY cooled off enough to get reasonable discussion. At least one person voted no on the rename, though, and I'd like to hear their opinion.

Also, I vote Fellowship for the new name. Maybe The Fellowship to make it a little bit more clear its referencing Lord Of The Rings.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Worldmaker Title? What Title? Since: Jun, 2010
Title? What Title?
#33: Jul 9th 2011 at 7:28:17 AM

Guys, the simple solution is to combine the current Nakama page with the Band of Brothers page, since the only difference is "Band of Brothers is Nakama in a military setting."

Do a slight rewrite of Band of Brothers to widen the trope, move all examples not already there from Nakama to Band of Brothers, then turn Nakama into a redirect for Band of Brothers.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#34: Jul 9th 2011 at 7:28:58 AM

The Fellowship in LOTR weren't really a Nakama, though. They weren't close enough, as far as I can remember.

Could be wrong, though.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#35: Jul 9th 2011 at 7:32:16 AM

Guys, the simple solution is to combine the current Nakama page with the Band of Brothers page, since the only difference is "Band of Brothers is Nakama in a military setting."

A Band of Brothers is a group of people, dedicated and loyal to each other beyond all other considerations, due to the dangerous (usually combat-related) circumstances they have faced together. The spilling of their blood, mixed together with a desperate life-or-death struggle, make them a family as close as any mere blood tie can make them. Beyond mere comradeship, being a Band of Brothers evokes an ideal of grim determination to face whatever comes together, and to see it through together. It is this shared struggle that they become a Band of Brothers.

They sound different to me- almost like Band of Brothers is a subtrope.

Unshakable Camaraderie is about friends who are close- closer than they would be with their own families, most likely.

Band Of Brothers is about a group of people who have forged a close relationship due to shared trials and tribulations. I would say it is closer to Fire-Forged Friends than Nakama.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#36: Jul 9th 2011 at 7:33:08 AM

I'm the second vote on a no. I can't speak for the first, but my reasons are as follows.

1) It's a very healthy trope in terms of wicks and inbounds, so it's not being ignored. Rather the opposite;

2) Nobody is arguing that it has been misused at all.

If someone can show me that it has a high level of misuse, I could be swayed, but this seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#37: Jul 9th 2011 at 7:37:17 AM

The problem is that it's a fandom/Japanese title on the English mirror of the site. People outside these fandoms who are searching for the Trope will not think of searching 'Nakama'.

If there is a good English title available, we should choose it over a foreign term. This is the English version of the site*

, not the Japanese title.

This is to say, if there is a clear English title that serves to describe the Trope, we should use it on the English version of the site over a foreign term.

edited 9th Jul '11 7:37:42 AM by CyganAngel

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#38: Jul 9th 2011 at 7:41:50 AM

More importantly, the Japanese term is the wrong term, so anyone who actually speaks the language will be confused.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#39: Jul 9th 2011 at 7:43:48 AM

It is?

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
Worldmaker Title? What Title? Since: Jun, 2010
Title? What Title?
#40: Jul 9th 2011 at 7:45:34 AM

Yep. Nakama doesn't mean what you think it means.

Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#41: Jul 9th 2011 at 7:49:43 AM

@38 Okay, the point about it meaning something else in Japanese? That's a good argument. And as the word hasn't truly entered the English language as yet (a Google search mostly brings up Japanese restaurants outside of this wiki), so it can't really be argued that the wrong definition has taken hold in English.

I'm fine with dropping my objections.

edited 9th Jul '11 7:50:11 AM by 32_Footsteps

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
CrypticMirror Cryptic Mirror from Scotland Since: Jan, 2001
#42: Jul 9th 2011 at 7:55:16 AM

can we get something in the thread title to indicate this is a new discussion please. I've talked to a couple of people and they think this is a necro-ing of an old thread that had been voted down once already.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#43: Jul 9th 2011 at 8:15:09 AM

[up][up] Yes, this is a title that doesn't make sense in either English or Japanese. It's completely opaque to everyone save One Piece fans.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
RocketDude Since: May, 2009
Sceptre Since: Jan, 2001
#46: Jul 9th 2011 at 9:04:33 AM

@34: Apart from Boromir's ringlust, they did grow quite close, especially after the ring went into the Crack of Doom. Legolas and Gimli, especially, but Merry and Pippin were especially close to Aragorn and were eventually interred together when they died.

Also, Unshakable Camaradie is a good name.

Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#47: Jul 9th 2011 at 9:09:55 AM

I support a rename.

Nakama has no special meaning beyond "comrade" in Japanese- except to One Piece Fans.

I'm looking at the crowner in shock. Is this actually happening?

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#48: Jul 9th 2011 at 9:14:02 AM

Support rename. And just to be clear, is the "unshakeability" an integral part of the trope?

[up] Yeah, it is happening. Maybe the vocal minority are sleeping? tongue

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
KrisMahai Hm? Since: Jan, 2013
Hm?
#49: Jul 9th 2011 at 9:22:36 AM

Supporting this. So glad it's finally happening. The amount of support in the crowner and thread is a very pleasant surprise.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
Worldmaker Title? What Title? Since: Jun, 2010
Title? What Title?
#50: Jul 9th 2011 at 9:25:32 AM

[up][up][up]I keep thinking "Wow... somebody's not paying attention to the TRS..."

edited 9th Jul '11 9:25:43 AM by Worldmaker

Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.

AlternativeTitles: Nakama
11th Jul '11 8:18:19 PM

Crown Description:

Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.

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