Barely related, but here's a guide to Northern Europe for everyone: [1]
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It's not entirely true that the Netherlands is ignored elsewhere, since it has a reputation in the UK, even if it is an unfair one as a bong-addled liberal hippie paradise where drunken British stag parties go to hire prostitutes. There's even a trope for it - Free State Amsterdam.
Actually, I'd probably rather be thought of as Germany's Canada.
edited 9th Jul '11 2:59:18 AM by captainbrass2
"Well, it's a lifestyle"I like Holland (I know, but it's all called Holland in my mental map. Prussia's still in there, too...), but the last time I was there I got caught in football riot with some friends and we had a Blue Oyster Bar
moment while trying to get out of the way. It was quite enlightening.
I think most anti-Americanism is caused by the unfortunate tendency of the US government to go "Oh, we can fix that!" at international situations that are problematic, and then naively ignore/downplay any comments that the situation might be more complex than it first appears and that others tried to fix problem X in the past and got screwed.
And then things don't go exactly as expected, and guess who needs to help cleaning up the mess? The UN/Europe.
What really doesn't help is that European countries tend to try a more constructive approach in such situations (helping the local population, trying to resolve local conflicts by talking), while the US approach is much more gung-ho and tends to cause much colateral damage exactly with those people that should not be the victims of such incidents (e.g. the local population).
Most recent examples: See Iraq* and Afghanistan* .
"That said, as I've mentioned before, apart from the helmet, he's not exactly bad looking, if a bit...blood-drenched." - juancarlosThe only noteable thing I can remember about the Netherlands is that the ICC is located there.
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I obviously can't speak for Europe, but the subconscious assumption in the US is that yes, Britain is part of Europe, but they're "less weird." Of course, such a statement is relative, and only really means that "Britain is the most like the US of those countries in Europe." It helps that there the whole history there, though.
Really, I (and everyone I know here in the US when the subject is brought up) cannot comprehend how the UK could ever consider itself "apart" from Europe. When all that separates you amounts to a glorified lake-river-channel, you really can't say there's sweeping geography separating you from your neighbors. Hell, Spain and Portugal have the best cases for "not really being a part of Europe," due to the history there, and that's still flimsy. That or Russia, for similar reasons (being conquered and having a cultural shift for it).
I am now known as Flyboy.Well, heres at least how in my neck of the woods (Central Missouri) that I know of how most people view europe. (not me, mind, just general midwestern cultural perception)
Britain: Either like something out of Mary Poppins and Oliver, or "Like america, but with british accents and weird sounding foods"
France: a bunch of stuck up cowards who wear berets, smoke self-rolled cigarettes and muck around with all that artsy fartsy stuff.
Spain: Thats in Mexico, right?
Germany: Bratwurst and Beer. Alternatively, that place nazis come from
Sweden/Netherlands/Holland: Wooden shoes, woodmills, and Ricola.
Italy/Greece: Mostly only known for their cuisine, not for any sort of cultural difference from france.
Rest of Europe: Russians.
Well, Britain is typically seen as distinct (and, let's face it, more important, in the eyes of most Americans, than) from Europe, but still, certainly, a part of it. Really, the views of Americans towards Europe these days can be summarized as "Britain, Western Europe (France, Germany, and Italy), the place formerly known as Commie Land, and everything else that isn't worth a mention."
Look at the geography. Europe in total is about the size of the US. For Britain to claim such a comparatively small distance justifies it being "not really part of Europe" rings as hollow and almost kind of whiny to the US. Of course, since the US is so alienated from Europe (and has been for centuries), compared to relative closeness with Britain (although it appears that Britain no longer feels the kinship that much anymore), means we can kinda-sorta sympathize on a political level, but these days distinguishing British politics from the rest of Europe's is a Drinking Game more than a serious discussion here in the US. With the European Union around, usually Europe just comes across as "Everybody over there... and Russia..."
edited 9th Jul '11 3:59:16 PM by USAF713
I am now known as Flyboy.![]()
Certainly not denying it. But considering the apparent willingness of the British government to do whatever Washington wants it to do compared to those damned bolshies on the mainland, I would have thought the more anti-European elements in the US would consider Britain to be more apart if only because it's been on the USA's leash since 1945.
edited 9th Jul '11 4:01:45 PM by pagad
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.![]()
I don't know. When foreign policy comes up, many of my friends (and I must admit sometimes, myself included) look at it as a kind of friendly rivalry. Sure, Britain is no longer king of the hill, but once upon a time it could "quiet all of Asia with a single battleship," or so the saying goes. Despite the US having taken up the sword, we still look at it as "we have to live up to Britain!", whether consciously or not. The fact that Britain sees itself as the "51st State" (what a strange concept...), while the US has a sort of passive-aggressive inferiority complex, comes across as quite amusing, I think...
Indeed. All this is even more amusing when you consider that much of the basis for "with Europe but not of it" is historical prejudice, even while Britain seems to be losing most of its history... or just not giving a damn anymore. Compared to the US, which records practically every little thing we did (regardless of whether we sugar-coat it or not) and obsesses over it all to no end. It's like the US and Britain committed a total reversal of roles.
The only thing I see as a potential problem with Europe melting into one thing is the result probably wouldn't like the US all that much. Britain is really the last true friend the US has left in Europe (we've managed to piss off or scare away the rest), it seems, and when Britain melts into the EU like the rest, I don't really know where we'll be. Somebody save us if it turns into something out of Tom Clancy or the book my friend is writing, where the US, the EU, and Russia and/or China restart the Cold War. I really think that European and American politics have drifted that far apart...
I am now known as Flyboy.
Well not really.
America and the EU are the two biggest econmoies in the world by PPP and GDP (The EU is not a nation to count), so to start another Cold War between the two is insane.
For them both to start one against China... maybe.
The Cold War between the US and USSR was insane too, but we did it anyhow. Ideological drift can be a great motivator to act past the line of sanity. Even just for the moment, the average American and European are liable to be hugely different, even as Europeans as a whole steadily become more alike and the old nations of Europe disappear. Since America is on the slow track to liberalization, if at all, that ideological rift is only going to get wider. As far as many Americans are concerned, Europe is only one step away from being what Soviet Russia used to be. It really bothers some people here that NATO spent the better part of a century defending itself from the Warsaw Pact only for Europe to drift, slowly but surely, towards that ideology anyhow.
Once again, Rule of Perception, but sometimes even I wonder where it happened. I like to peg the Vietnam War as the exact point that Europe and America were no longer on speaking terms, but it was probably sooner than that...
I am now known as Flyboy.Hi, Brazilian speaking here.
Over here I never noticed much of a stereotyping of Europe. Maybe we just don't talk about them as much as of our neighbors or US (unless it is about football, many of us watch European football on TV, if we can). Not nearly as much as of [[Eagleland USA, at any rate.
Anyway, when we think in 'Europe' we are certainly thinking in western Europe (including Britain). "We" think of you as 'rich' and that is it, mostly. Also people that don't bath. That is probably the biggest negative stereotyping here. We tend to think of you as a bunch of unclean people who don't bath as much as one should (which is at last once a day).
As far as individual stereotype goes:
- Portuguese are said to be dumb (we have many jokes about that matter), but no one really believe that. They are mostly seem as harder to communicate as it should.
- French people are arrogant who think everything French is better and that become offended if you don't talk French with them, even if you are obviously a tourist. Sometimes is also said to use perfumes to mask their lack of hygiene (see above what we think of Europeans bathing habits).
- Italians are all nice fellows, easy to deal with.
- Britains the usual US stereotypes of them, I guess. Britain and England is used interchangeably and it is, naturally part of Europe. Such discussion would never even cross our mind. We find the idea of Britain not being part of Europe very silly in concept.
- Eastern Europe is more or less a single unidentified thing. People here know there is many people there, but that is it. They are 'poor' as far as European can be. Russia is viewed as a separated part of the same thing (but richer and more powerful, I guess).

Thule?