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Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Mar 22nd 2020 at 8:45:29 AM

Which may be another reason a lot of people had difficulty with it. For all we claim to appreciate deconstruction, when it actually happens, it pisses a lot of people off. Like The Last Jedi. Don't @ me.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 22nd 2020 at 12:06:27 PM

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CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Mar 22nd 2020 at 9:17:44 AM

I think it's one of the best games personally but it's not terribly FUN and it's not got a particularly engaging setting. Also, it requires Connor to carry the Idiot Ball for a large portion of the game as its difficult to think a man as smart as Connor wouldn't pick up on the fact they're not fighting for his freedom fairly early. There's a reason people love Haytham as the Evil Is Cool and Draco in Leather Pants that he is.

Amusingly, Edward is one of the most beloved characters for not giving a rat's ass about being an assassin.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Mar 22nd 2020 at 9:20:18 AM

Connor is an outsider, and he doesn't really give a damn about the Revolution so much as the promise he thinks he got from Juno about saving his people. He's mono-focused. He doesn't fit in and people don't give him the full story. It is extremely narratively consistent, but as you noted, it's not terribly fun.

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InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Mar 22nd 2020 at 12:41:11 PM

But then we see the reverse of that where all the characters they want to be 'FUN' rely on just, trying to clone Ezio again. Look at how much absolute shit Evie gets from some people for... being the one who has a brain about the situation.

CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:07:16 PM

Edward is I think the only fun non-Ezio.

I'm also fairly certain everyone loves Evie a lot more than Jacob.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:10:27 PM

I've seen a lot of love for her from people who genuinely care about the series and good character/storytelling. The hate I do see for her usually stems from her being a stick in the mud and not fun like Jacob is.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Relationship Status: It's complicated
Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:15:19 PM

Beyak is nothing like Ezio aside from some of his motives. And he is awesome.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:21:54 PM

Bayak is basically Connor done right.

He's a serious, stoic, community driven professional good guy.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Relationship Status: It's complicated
Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:24:16 PM

And having a deeply religious character interact with First Civ stuff was a great narrative choice.

The Eagle Bearer...was quite the whiplash on that front.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:25:10 PM

The Erotic Adventures of the Mestios is how I played it.

:)

Banging and Murdering your way across Greece!

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:26:49 PM

If only the dude options weren't so uncomfortable to me...

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Relationship Status: It's complicated
Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:29:45 PM

Every romantic option in that game was lame at best, cringeworthy at worst. I stopped taking the heart options after a point.

If romance returns, they need a new writer for it. Odyssey was like, Witcher 1 levels of bad on this front.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:33:18 PM

Nope. Not that bad. They didn't have sleazy sex trading cards in AC.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Mar 22nd 2020 at 2:03:19 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Do you mean Bayek? Because he doesn't really react to much of anything of the precursor stuff.

I loved Evie too, and I played her as much as possible.

Edited by Redmess on Mar 22nd 2020 at 10:06:59 AM

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Mar 22nd 2020 at 2:44:11 PM

Bayek is Egyptian Batman. He's not at all like Connor. Connor is very much a product of his culture. Connor may be stoic and hard-headed, but he is original and, above all, authentic. Bayek is dumbed down for the masses so that they don't have to think too much. "Revenge grr, bonk wife, proto-Templar bad."

Edit: I prefer to think of the Assassin's Creed games in terms of the emotional impact they had on me. It's how I judge stories in general. From that perspective, my favorites are Revelations and III, in that order, because both made me bawl like a baby at their endings. Black Flag tried to tug the heartstrings, and I got a few misty moments from it, just not nearly as much.

From Unity on, I was left cold.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 22nd 2020 at 6:07:00 AM

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CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Mar 22nd 2020 at 3:40:03 PM

I don't have a problem with him per se, although he comes from the breed of AC protagonist established by Syndicate whom we don't get to know along with their life story, but rather is presented as an adult in full possession of all skills they will ever have and given a token reason to murder Templars. Zero Punctuation put it best when he said that the story feels like Ubisoft spun the wheel of stock motivations until it landed on "dead son".

We are literally introduced to Bayek mid-murder, with a giant "fill backstory in later" sign attached to his face. He has no real character growth throughout the game: he starts off angry about his dead son and ends angry about his dead son. His wife at least realizes how much of an idiot he's being and resolves to go off and do something different for a change, and it would have been great if she were the protagonist and Bayek the side character.

Alas, that would have been too progressive for the game's audience. Isn't it nice that Odyssey gave us the first ever actual choice of male or female protagonist? *cough*

In short, I don't hate Bayek. I feel nothing for him. He barely engages my interest as a character.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 22nd 2020 at 6:47:59 AM

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CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Mar 22nd 2020 at 3:43:18 PM

Eh, I give Bayek a lot of praise as a minority protagonist whose storyline is about getting OVER the death of his son in order to do something productive with the rest of his life since his marriage has failed with his wife not wanting to try to rebuild their family.

Revenge is followed by, "Now what?"

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
Ghilz Fight It Out! from The Moon, Or Canada Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Fight It Out!
Mar 22nd 2020 at 3:44:10 PM

I found Bayek to be bland. There's very little in the story where his personality gets to shine through (The few rare times is when his religion come into play, as he's one of the few rare video game protagonist who is openly religious. Doubly rare in AC). For 95% of the game he's a generic good guy what does generic good guy things. Most of the big choices and decisions aren't made by him, but by Aya. It's Aya who pours her hopes into Cleopatra, and its Aya who takes the betrayal the worst.

Bayek for the most port is perfectly content going around avenging his son (Which is a motivation that's already kinda cliche in the series and doesn't help him much stand out) and basically being Egyptian Batman. The game never really challenges Bayeks' beliefs or give him much beyond "Be a bro" and "Tyranny bad".

He's not bad, he's just... bland. There's a few scene where he gets to be more interesting (him hesitating to kill Flavius because once he does his revenge will be complete and he feels he'll have truly lost his son is a good one) And yeah, the game really wants to be about Aya which doesn't help.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Mar 22nd 2020 at 3:44:13 PM

[up][up]Yeah, but she is the one who grows. He just peters out.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 22nd 2020 at 6:44:23 AM

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Mar 22nd 2020 at 4:04:52 PM

While I would have preferred that Aya be the protagonist (she's even the first leader of the Hidden Ones and becomes one of its most famous figures), I'm still just happy that she didn't get fridged. I spent the entire prologue annoyed that Bayek's wife got killed offscreen, and then she showed up and I was like "oh, they didn't kill her!"

Bayek is interesting in a lot of subtle ways, like the way his religion impacts his behavior in sidequests. But he had zero reaction to all the First Civ tech he kept running into, which was just bizarre.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Mar 22nd 2020 at 6:08:59 PM

We could play Evie too, remember? And she certainly had the more interesting plot of the twins.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Mar 22nd 2020 at 6:11:52 PM

And she had the lead role in the "Jack the Ripper" DLC, which makes Ubisoft's decision not to make Aya more prominent in Origins all the more baffling.

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CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Mar 22nd 2020 at 6:23:22 PM

I actually think that's because Aya is a deeply unpleasant individual. Everything we see of her reinforces she's a murderous fanatic. Which I actually like about her. It's not what you expect from the Assassins.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Mar 22nd 2020 at 7:37:01 PM

[up][up]I still hate the Jack the Ripper DLC and think it has ALL KIND of issues going on with it. But, yes, Evie is the character who comes off a bit stronger but I feel like the dynamic of 'Jacob fucks up, Evie fixes it' should have ended at the mid-point so they could separate, stand on their own, develop and confront their issues, before reuniting.

As for Bayek... I think I like him more as a vehicle to explore Ancient Egypt than I do as a genuine character. The dead soon characterization is weak and the fact that he comes from goddamn Siwa and there's NO mention of homosexuality drives me nuts to no end. Why pick there of ALL places??? And I liked the moments he was religious... but they're so few and far between. I feel like Ubisoft was kind of uncomfortable with it; not with religion but how to integrate it more into Bayek's main plot character without it being forced or making him come off as a fundamentalist. Hence why, when it comes up, it's also in the more slice of life side quests.

I also still feel like Origins is half a game. I had felt like the siege of Alexandria with Caesar and Cleopatra gaining the throne should have been the turning point into Act 2. But instead... it's basically the end of Act 2 into the climax? It didn't feel paced right and I felt more confused than anything. The villains were also a bit half baked and made little sense in various ways, but that's ALSO been a consistent issue with AC for awhile. I think 3 was the last time I really felt anything for the villains?

[up]That too. I kind of love her turn to darker. I liked seeing her in the DLC too and was disappointed it was a glorified cameo... with a fucking middrif at that.

Edited by InkDagger on Mar 22nd 2020 at 7:38:02 AM


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