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Rewrite Due to Fetishistic Description?: Zettai Ryouiki

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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#76: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:16:32 PM

There are only four total variations. That's far less than most tropes on the wiki, especially for a costume trope. Deleting random bits of working tropes on the other hand causes far more confusion and makes tropes much harder to keep track of.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Catalogue A pocketful of saudade. from where the good times are Since: Sep, 2009
A pocketful of saudade.
#77: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:16:52 PM

Hmmm, on the one hand, people seem to include C, on the other, to exclude it leaves us with a very neat definition (above the knee).

What about putting C under disputed category? We only need to monitor the examples in the Zettai Ryouiki page, in work pages it's fair game.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
Daremo Misanthrope Supreme from Parts Unknown Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
#78: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:18:00 PM

Indeed. Stick with C.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.
EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#79: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:24:35 PM

@Catalogue: People only include below-the-knee examples, because the trope page says they can. If it were changed, they would know not to.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#80: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:26:48 PM

No, no they wouldn't. People don't read trope descriptions especially when they've been editing the same trope for a long time and know what the trope is. If you hack off a piece of a trope, most people won't notice and you'll just end up with that piece getting added back in by editors that don't notice the change.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#81: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:28:22 PM

It doesn't really do that.

And what about something like this?

"White symbolize extreme innocence while black tend to symbolize a bit more mature mentality with repressed or budding feelings in relationships and tend to lash out"

Bah it just doesn't work well without adding "sexuality" in there.

edited 7th Jul '11 10:30:39 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#82: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:30:48 PM

@shimaspawn: That's what curators are for.

@Raso: Here.

Often, the color of the character's socks/boots is reflective of their personality, with white socks associated with youth, and black associated with Tsunderes.

edited 7th Jul '11 10:41:24 PM by EnglishIvy

Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#83: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:33:22 PM

Also note that there are plenty of B length go-go boots. (ABBA being a particularly prominent example). I think that variation should be added back on.

And truthfully I prefer the more playful tone of the current version. It's a bit of a crazy Serious Business thing so affectionate tongue in cheek seems a good tone to have.

edited 7th Jul '11 10:35:08 PM by Sackett

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#84: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:33:26 PM

Curators jobs are not to arbitrarily chop off a third of a trope for no reason.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#85: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:33:54 PM

Here's where I have a problem with including "C": That's a standard American school uniform level, that shows up in lots of western works, and doesn't mean anything except "This is a schoolgirl."

EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#86: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:34:25 PM

@shimaspawn: No, that's TRS's job, of course. tongue

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#87: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:35:12 PM

White can Tsundere though. they are just a bit more of the innocent variety. Nagi from Hayate No Gotoku and Astarotte from Lotte No Omocha are both this as well as being 10 years old. (there are more too)

edited 7th Jul '11 10:36:13 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#88: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:35:20 PM

@ Madrugada That's a great example of this trope and a reason to KEEP those. School girls are a big part of the draw of this trope.

@ Ivy No, that's the opposite of the TRS's job. We fix tropes. We don't break them for no reason.

edited 7th Jul '11 10:36:19 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Catalogue A pocketful of saudade. from where the good times are Since: Sep, 2009
A pocketful of saudade.
#89: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:35:41 PM

Is it related with Black Bra and Panties?

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#90: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:38:06 PM

@shimaspawn: If a bone is broken and heals incorrectly, a doctor must break it again and reset it to the shape that it's supposed to be. They don't just tell people to leave it as is.

@Raso: Ok, white symbolizes youth, then.

edited 7th Jul '11 10:41:11 PM by EnglishIvy

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#91: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:44:28 PM

But is a bone is not and has never been broken , the doctor doesn't just break it for the hell of it. Broken bones always heal weaker. This trope is not broken. It hasn't been broken. It is by all our objective standards, a trope in good working order. Breaking it will make it weaker not stronger.

edited 7th Jul '11 10:45:32 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#92: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:46:07 PM

Except that normal everyday schoolgirls don't fit, if the point of the trope is "Since it is incredibly sensual without revealing the "naughty bits", it symbolizes budding, innocent sexuality, one of The Ingenue who is already aware of her attractiveness but not (yet) cynical enough to put it to use". It's just what they wear, with no subtext at all.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#93: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:47:25 PM

[up] Budding innocent sexuality sounds like school girls to me. Or at least they're the general focus of this trope. They were in fact, a large part of the catalyst for it's invention.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#94: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:49:35 PM

@shimaspawn's second most recent post: The trope is broken. The past several pages of discussion detail exactly why.

@shimaspawn's most recent post: .............

edited 7th Jul '11 10:51:01 PM by EnglishIvy

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#95: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:52:35 PM

"Budding innocent sexuality sounds like school girls to me."

It can be. It can also be completely irrelevant.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#96: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:53:46 PM

Hey, I don't have to like a trope's origins to know where it comes from. This one comes from school girl fetishes. I find them creepy too.

The debate has in fact, never declared the trope broken. This thread was made to tweak. Not to fix. You want to break it. That's the opposite of what this is for.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#97: Jul 7th 2011 at 11:00:39 PM

The trope is, in its current incarnation, overly broad, overly obsessive about irrelevant details, and overly fetishy. In other words, broken.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#98: Jul 7th 2011 at 11:04:12 PM

So then, as far as you're concerned, Muffy Crosswire is a valid example?

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#99: Jul 7th 2011 at 11:04:20 PM

So, all you have is personal opinion and you're going to ignore the good wiks, the great inbounds and the fact that the current definition is being used consistently, i.e. the objective facts. Got it. Personal opinion is impossible to argue with. Facts I find are much sounder and the facts say working no matter what your gut says.

[up] On sheer costuming, she counts. Would I add her, no because I find it creepy to apply fetish tropes to children. But I'm sure I can find a character the same age with socks over their knees that I'd feel just as creepy about adding.

edited 7th Jul '11 11:06:07 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#100: Jul 7th 2011 at 11:08:45 PM

The current definition is so broad, it's being used for practically anything involving socks. That makes consistency irrelevant.

Also? If the page were defetishized, it would be okay to add characters as young as Muffy without it looking creepy.

edited 7th Jul '11 11:09:51 PM by EnglishIvy

SingleProposition: ZettaiRyouikiGradeC
8th Jul '11 10:38:36 AM

Crown Description:

Does Grade C Zettai Ryouiki count as an example?

Total posts: 539
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