Is the grading system really necessary?: Zettai Ryouiki

A while back, the page image for Zettai Ryouiki was a single image of a character wearing a skirt and long socks. It was changed to a much larger image, of three girls wearing zettai ryouiki, with corresponding "grades" to the length of their socks.

There are two major problems with the current image. The first is that, by including the grading system, it puts too much focus on the relative lengths of skirt and socks, instead of the fact that a character is simply wearing that particular fashion. The page itself has also adopted the grading system. The end result makes it come off as incredibly obsessive and fetishistic, something that is more suited for Fetish Fuel Wiki than this site.

The second major problem is that it's too big. Normally, this would be solved with a simple resizing, but... well, see the previous paragraph.

Could we switch back to the old picture, where it was just one character?

I agree that it's not a thing I'd want to read aloud around anybody apart from a depraved smut fanclub, lest people will look at me funny, but I can't really find a reason to remove these grade-related details. These are after all information.

Unless, of course, the grading thing isn't all that prevalent in the fandom.

p.s. I'm all for trimming the description, however.

edited 5th Jul '11 9:32:38 PM by Catalogue

Oh the grading system is very very prevalent in the fandom. And showing the various types was chosen in an imagepicking thread. Zettai Ryouiki is Serious Business.

[1]

edited 5th Jul '11 9:42:08 PM by Raso

I...actually prefer the image. It's clarifies what is and is not Zettai Ryouiki.

I'm not sure how a rather large image that simply shows "grades" is any better than a single image. It takes up screen space, is vaguely pervy (on top of an already slightly creepy description), and doesn't really make any sense without reading the trope. Otherwise it's just some creepy image grading a girl's legs.

I'm all for going back to a single example image that neatly ties up the trope.

Yeah, I remember the grading system to be very much an inevitable topic if you come across the topic of the trope. So maybe it's here to stay.

I still think the description is a bit lengthier than necessary, but maybe it's just me.

If grading systems are part of the sub-culture associated, fine. Make a mention of it in a short blurb, maybe a sentence. Trim the excess out of the description.

As for the image, that thing is huge, and large images aren't really necessary. Besides, I was never confused before as to what is and isn't this trope. I tend to have more trouble not dropping an "i" when I write or attempt to say it.

Also, the use of the grading system right in the image is honestly really creepy. It seems to me to be unnecessary. If the image and description both explain that the term refers to a style of high knee-socks covering up almost to the hem of a short skirt, you shouldn't need to explain that standard knee-socks do not fit the trope by showing an image and sticking a letter grade on it.

@Raso: Please consider what someone who is not part of anime fandom- or, at least, not part of zettai ryouiki fandom (?)- would think upon seeing the page image. It doesn't come across in a flattering manner, to say the least.

The trope covers everything though. from Grade C (Just below the knee), Grade B (which is above the knee) and Grade A (where the gap between the skirt and the stockings is only a few inches.)

Why wouldn't we show it? (Again see the last thread on the subject that was just a few weeks ago....) The old one was only Grade A.

Only grade S is fandom specific (which requires Tsundere and Twin Tails [1]◊)

Full Ranking system (although in Japanese)

edited 5th Jul '11 10:04:49 PM by Raso

The last thread was three people and mostly just talked about the size.

Like I said, the reasons for it to change:

1. Mildly creepy and fetishistic
2. Rather large and unwieldy
3. Requires you to read the article to understand the image, which is something I thought images were supposed to avoid

edited 5th Jul '11 10:04:58 PM by Iverum

The ranking system has swallowed the entire page. It would not be a problem if there was an offhand mention about people getting into very detailed descriptions about "proper" sock/boot length and where the hem should come up to.

Which is all that the description had on the ranking system, once upon a time, and it worked much better than what we have now.

Furthermore, by assigning grades or ranks, it comes across as a value judgement. As though "Grade A" is superior to "Grade B" or "Grade C", when they're pretty much interchangeable. Who talks like this, aside from cosplayers and clothing fetishists? Regular people who watch anime or read manga certainly don't...

edited 5th Jul '11 10:09:40 PM by EnglishIvy

Again see the old thread and why the pic was chosen as well as the size was chosen.....

Also see writeups in the description on how it works [1] [2]

edited 5th Jul '11 10:16:19 PM by Raso

I tried to trim the description. See the sandbox page. What do you think? I think it's more organised and less fetishised in its approach.

Don't know about the image, though. I like the illustration one.

There was no official crowner for that thread. I never saw it. I doubt many people did, considering the entire decision was made in under a day. (By the way, that's not how things are supposed to go around here, unless there's something majorly messed up — it's certainly not how final decisions get made.)

@Catalogue: The trimmed description is a step in the right direction, although there're still some issues with that page image. Namely, it looks like striped socks, and it's in Japanese...

Would this work?

edited 5th Jul '11 10:19:31 PM by EnglishIvy

Catalogue: I think the rewrite is a fair sight better.

Raso: 2 pages and four people in less than a day does not make a consensus.

edited 5th Jul '11 10:18:02 PM by Iverum

that works actually although we would have to edit in the translations.

that one was removed because it did not show the whole trope...,.

edited 5th Jul '11 10:24:03 PM by Raso

...It is the whole trope. There's nothing beyond the fact that a character is wearing a short skirt with socks or boots. Everything else is stuff that people tacked on, afterwards.

edited 5th Jul '11 10:24:10 PM by EnglishIvy

Where would the translations go? It still doesn't really capture the trope in a single image and would still require reading the article to understand.

The size is better though and it's less creepy. That's two out of three.

^^^ I'm not sure how it doesn't, considering it's showing the zone right there.

And again, four people and just over nine hours does not make a consensus. Stop acting like it does, thanks.

edited 5th Jul '11 10:24:25 PM by GoggleFox

[Ninja'd] Can you translate it? It's fairly easy to change the text. Or you can convert it to the grades, although there are six lines there, not five. [/Ninja'd]

But if we go with the older image, well, that won't be necessary. Personally I think the diagram thing is slightly more modest since it doesn't look like a panty shot.

edited 5th Jul '11 10:26:11 PM by Catalogue

Starting from top..

• Grade A – Thigh high socks
• Grade B – Over knee sock
• Grade C – High socks
• Grade D – Three quarter socks
• Grade E – Crew socks
• and the lowest Grade F – Ankle socks

Also we can just shrink the current one [1] here are the full sized images.

The trope isnt just Grade A Zettai Ryouiki damnit...

edited 5th Jul '11 10:29:47 PM by Raso

Hmm.

The original page image, from way back, had a slightly longer skirt, and wasn't drawn at a lower angle. Does anybody know where that image went?

That would take up half the page!

edited 5th Jul '11 10:29:33 PM by EnglishIvy

Which is why it was taken down.

I'd be fine with just using the single Grade A image. There isn't any need to clutter the page with more images.

I'd also be happy with this image◊. /joking

edited 5th Jul '11 10:30:11 PM by Iverum