European Politics Thread

Maybe not too good to be true, but maybe a little bit better than initially feared.

The timing of the treaty is both fortunate and unfortunate for the EU. Fortunate because it emphasizes the benefit of EU membership in trade negotiations just when the UK leaves, and unfortunate because it might annoy Biden. But then again, the last 4 years have shown that the EU need to look out for themselves, and the deal took a lot of preparation and effort so delaying it might not been wise.

Should we really care too much about annoying Biden? I'd rather have a stronger, more independent Europe, and if that takes stepping on a few American toes, then so be it.

Europe Can’t Blame Donald Trump Anymore

Unless a miracle happens, that's just not an option in many minds sans Macron.

The article doesn't mention arguably the key obstacle for greater European autonomy: Money.

If they wanted true autonomy, pretty much all European countries (sans maybe France and Greece) would have to drastically increase their defense spending, in some cases doubling it. That was not popular before Corona, and it certainly won't be after.

The reason why AKK spoke out against it was because she eyperienced the great difficulties to get even modestly increased defense budgets approved, with the other government party (SPD) fighting tooth and nail to prevent it. Which is also why the statement of the Green's politician in this article hypocritical, since her party has declared that it seeks "disarmament, not rearmament". Mind you, there is currently no viable scenario to form the next government without the Green party, thus Germany is unlikely to be able to contribute to greater military autonomy in the future. I suspect the situation might be the same in other countries.

A solution to that could be amalgamating existing defence spending. Combining the Italian and French defence budgets would get you the 3rd largest defence budget in the world, that’s without throwing in any other EU member state.

This is where the EU army idea could gain ground, as a way to improve defence capability while reducing spending. But it requires member states to be willing to surrender sovereignty and the ability to direct defence spending back into their own economies.

Yes, that seems like a good solution. Now to find enough politicians who would support such an idea.

The article says Trumpism didn't win, but I'm not so sure of that. Trumpism didn't quite lose, even if Trump himself lost.

Edited by Redmess on Jan 3rd 2021 at 2:39:12 PM

It is a good solution, but I am not sure if any French president would ever agree to such a loss of sovereignity. An indepedent military force underlining French political cloud always a priority for France after WWII, thus becoming dependent on other countries would be very difficult to swallow for Paris.

So it looks like Matteo Renzi has brought down the Italian government. Or at least part of it(?)

What kind of drugs is this guy on? DHT?

What the fuck is going on in the Netherlands?

The Dutch government, after thoroughly botching the initial COVID response, decided to set a curfew for all citizens to stem the tide of COVID cases.

Upon hearing this, a portion of said citizens, frustrated from the drawn-out chaotic COVID measures and drunk on misinformation, decided to violently riot, egged on by the usual suspects from the alt-right.

Edited by Kayeka on Jan 27th 2021 at 10:51:12 AM

Actually, not the usual suspects in this case. A lot of the people inciting violence were actually teenagers, some rather young teenagers. Think 11 in one case.

The jury is still out on their motivations, but it seems to have more to do with covid boredom and social media encouraging such behaviour than with being members of the alt right.

Kids that young sounds sounds like either gang activity or parental negligence.

Not necessarily, the internet just can be a bad influence, and it only takes a few.

I think it goes to show that we need to regulate kids' use of social media much more.

Kids get radicalised online to the point of violence is very much parental negligence.

Edited by Silasw on Jan 27th 2021 at 12:27:36 PM

Or just the usual griefing out of boredom.

I'm not sure in how far we can really blame parental negligence. They can't control everything their kids read or do online. And if parents tried to control their kids too much, that could backfire as well.

I mean, would you guys accept your parents micromanaging what sites you watch and how you interact with people online? I don't think so.

It's not an all or nothing situation.

A parent can at least make the effort to educate their kids. Not necessarily outright banning sites, but explaining why those sites are dangerous.

And if that means the parents need to educate themselves too, so be it.

Edited by M84 on Jan 28th 2021 at 10:31:17 PM

Well, yeah, but most parents have neither the time nor the technical understanding to police their kids' Internet use beyond time limits. If memory serves roughly 80-90% of parents in Switzerland have no idea what their children do online. Don't get me started about how parents - and not just in Switzerland - often have a completely wrong idea of what is risky online and what is not.

I alsothink that we ought to have a citation that the Internet is responsible for these contretemps.

Again, I'm not suggesting policing the use. That won't work. I'm talking about teaching kids responsible internet usage.

And if parents themselves don't know how to do that? Well, that just shows the problem isn't just kids.

Edited by M84 on Jan 28th 2021 at 10:43:59 PM

The situation in Italy is worrying. The EU Corona fonds are a once-of-a-lifetime opportunity for Italy, but for that we need an Italian government that uses them thoughtfully and for that we need a stable government. I just hope Salvini does not make a comeback.

Or that other woman who is allegedly even worse than Salvini. I am not sure that I like Renzi's return, either.

The internet doesn’t download violent desires into the brain, kids can be taught to avoid negative online communities the same way they can be taught to avoid negative IRL communities.

Oh there are a lot of parents who are negligent when it comes to letting their kids into a wilderness without giving them the skills to safely navigate said wilderness. The widespread nature of such parental negligence doesn’t make it more acceptable.

Well, what basically happened according to the news here is that teens were challenging each other to one-upmanship in how far they were willing to go in these demonstrations, and later riots.

Unfortunately, my city's motto of "Eindhoven de gekste" (Eindhoven the craziest) seems to have been the inspiration for this.

Is the internet responsible? Well, in the sense that it makes this sort of thing much easier, perhaps. It can act as a digital schoolyard on a much bigger scale, for instance.

And yeah, I don't think you can reasonably ask parents to oversee all their internet activity. And it seems a little hypocritical to blame parents for this, when we, the previous generation, have largely enjoyed ourselves online without any sort of parental oversight.

The problem is that the internet is pretty much limitless in size and scope, and you can't possibly oversee it all. With physical space, parents at least have some sense of what is around them, where kids can and cannot go, what is safe and what is not. With the internet, that is a lot less clear cut.

Edited by Redmess on Jan 28th 2021 at 8:10:25 PM

You don’t need to oversee exactly what they’re doing, you just need to teach them how to take care of themselves online and not get sucked into stupidity or violence.

It’s the same as letting your kid go spend hours playing unsupervised outdoors, you can do it safely, if you teach the kid how to act in such an uncontrolled environment.

Past the point of heavily instilling the concepts of stranger danger, being careful where I went, and not giving away all my personal and financial information online, my parents were fairly loose as to what I did on the Internet. I turned out relatively fine because I was able to self-police my own damn habits and only go where I felt personally comfortable. So I'd say they did a pretty good job of that, as it's more about establishing strong baseline values than micromanaging Internet access.