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Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 9th 2024 at 3:24:05 PM
Well, it came up regarding the gas pipeline.
so, let's be clear here: No matter what, gas will be needed for the foreseeable future. Alongside with oil it is used for heating all over Europe, and it will take decades to install alternative heating sources in every single home all over Europe.
In the context of power, it has the advantage that you can store it, and it has some other advantages over nuclear and coal, because it is more flexible overall.
The discussions surrounding the gas pipeline have little to do with the environment and everything about different countries having different interests on the gas market.
Though I think we can all agree replacing gas heating is something that should be done, even if it'll take a lot of time to truly see the results.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Having seen the result of gas explosions, I am not a big fan of it. But one after another. If the choice is to replace Nuclear, coal or gas, gas would for sure be the option I won't pick first.
I don't think anybody here objects to the notion that renewable energy should become our sole energy source in the future. It is just when and how to achieve this people disagree on.
From my point of view, it is more important to consider the special circumstances of each country, instead of arguing over the general (dis-) of the various energy sources. In the case of Germany, it is worth noting that nuclear energy was never profitable (the state had to subsidy it) and it was only introduced for strategic reasons. Not to mention that an (often hysterical) debate has turned the public mood firmly against it.
Fossil fuel however is still an important economic factor, especially in the poorer (East German) areas. It is no surprise that e.g Western Pommerania is heavily pushing for NSII, and that the coal miners in Lusatia want coal mining to continue. Both of those areas are also strobg holds of the Af D, who has now started to exploit the issue and discover climate change deniers. What we need is a long-term compromise that acknowledges the needs of the people depending on fossil fuel, while also aiming to phase them out. For that we need to patient. Because all it takes is one electiob in which the climate-change scepticer win, to destroy years of progress (think of how Trump has de facto undone all the work Obama did regarding enviromental protection).
Swanpride: So point out where I am factually wrong. That should be easy, right? Because it is sure easy to do to climate change deniers.
I am pro nuclear for one very simple reason. I actually believe that global warming is the most dire threat to our society we are currently facing.
Thus, it drives me up the wall that people who should be my allies on this reject and crusade against the one technology we have which has a demonstrated track record of actually fixing at least the electricity side of things. And that is, after all, only about 40% of the problem, we will need such insane amounts of electricity to clean up transport and industry on top of that.
It is also worth noting that while some countries try to phase coal out, others are currently building new coal plants, because it is cheap and they have a LOT of coal.
How the hell am I supposed to show out you are wrong, when what I said was there there AREN'T any proper studies on the subject yet? You go and cite studies about the people who lived close to Chernobyl. As far as I know IF those studies even exist, they would be hardly trustworthy due to the actions of the USSR. And regarding Fukushima: There is a long term study about the impact, but it only started in 2015, so there has been no conclusive result yet.
Thing is, you are throwing around with so called facts, but as far as I know, there haven't been any conclusive studies so far about anything (and with conclusive studies I mean something submitted from an independent entity, not from some lobbyist think tank).
You know what we DO know though: Fukushima was build to withstand the worst catastrophe the Japanese government could imagine - and we are talking here about a country which has school children under tables fairly regularly to prepare them for earthquakes. And despite all the security measures IT WASN'T ENOUGH!!!!
And frankly, the whole "see this big danger so don't pay attention to the other big danger" logic is idiotic. One way or another, the future are renewables not nuclear power.
Edited by Swanpride on Feb 10th 2019 at 9:20:18 AM
Alrighty, take further discussion on nuclear power here please.
Doublepost since in Switzerland an initiative to install country wide restrictions on new housing has failed, with 64% or so of the country voting No. I also voted in that direction.
Also, in Spain it seems like there are protests against Pedro Sanchez.
Italy is also having a local election that's seen as a referendum on the current government, and to my annoyance it seems like it'll involve further gains for Salvini.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Wasn't there also a massive labour protest against Salvini in Rome this weekend? Almost nobody seems to have reported on it despite it being much larger than the one happening in Madrid.
Macedonia is officially North Macedonia now, with the naming dispute now ended.
Edited by CookingCat on Feb 13th 2019 at 5:01:42 AM
She/Her Pronouns
Thank goodness for that.
The Washington Post is reporting that N. Macedonia is now pushing forward on its bid to join NATO, closing that over decade old loose end.
Huh, that was fast...are they also applying for EU membership?
They've got plenty of incentive. 
She/Her Pronouns
According to Wikipedia, yes! However, I can't find a recent news article on it suggesting that its on the back burner until they're in NATO.
She/Her Pronouns
Apologies for the doublepost.
Spain is likely to be having a snap election.
The Catalan Nationalist parties broke with PM Sanchez and voted down his budget due to the failure of the talks about independence. If a snap election happens, there is a possibility that the Conservative parties regain power.
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Well, there are more variables at play. From what I've gathered, there are at least 4 possibilities of coalitions (two of them involving the right-wing parties, one of which is Vox, which was formed by ex-PP members and has attracted a far-right following in recent years). Vox could lead to PP losing votes (especially in light of the Catalan issues, with the former being more vehemently opposed to Catalan and Basque separatism than the latter). On the other hand, one of the coalitions involving Sanchez's PSOE would have to involve Podemos (who seem to have softened their stance a bit). Basically, the possible alliances go like this (the source of this is El País, according to the Portuguese newspaper I'm reading):
1 - PSOE + Podemos + others
2 - PSOE + Ciudadamos + Canaries Party (the latter is obviously a regional party);
3 - PP + Ciudadamos + Basque Nationalist Partynote and the Canaries Party;
4 - The so-called "tripartite alliance": PP + Ciudadamos + Vox.
Out of these 4, it's the latter that has the possibility of reaching the desired majority (175+1 is the minimum amount of deputees required); none of the other possibilities outlined above would achieve the minium required. Ciudadmos, being the centrist party, will become almost involved in a tug of war between Pedro Sanchez and Albert Rivera. In other words, it's a matter of who will get more centrist votes. On the other hand, the left-wing has both a weakness (divided in regards to Catalonia, both in said region and across Spain) and an opportunity (because Vox - the more visible face of the growth of the far-right - would lead to a weakness of PP, who would have to choose whether to go for the middle groun or to go for a more radical speech.
Vox might add or subtract votes from PP, basically. Also, the rise of Vox leads to the political system becoming even more unstable than it already was (the decline of the bipartisan system was already noticeable since Podemos and Ciudadamos came onto the scene a few years ago, but it might become more volatile now).
I wouldn't make any bets, for now. It'll be a matter of calculating variables and speeches which might be beyond the control of the main protagonists (the aforementioned Sanchez and Rivera).
A Spanish troper would probably explain this better than I did (and correct me if I got anything wrong), but I hope this is a decent Cliffs' notes version of what's going on.
Edited by Quag15 on Feb 16th 2019 at 11:14:43 AM
Would PSOE have any chance of propping up the PP as a cordon sanitaire against both Vox and Catalonia?
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
She/Her Pronouns
Considering PP has worked with Vox in the past and the Catalonian Nationalists have worked with PSOE in the past, probably not.
The government fell specifically because Catalonia broke with the PSOE, though, so I don't see a reason why the PSOE wouldn't lock down Catalonia.
The joker in the deck is whether C will work with Vox...oh, who am I kidding? Of course they will.
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
From Bellingcat: “Defend the White Race”: American Extremists Being Co-Opted by Ukraine’s Far-Right
Since I feel that we need to see more of the good things the EU does, I felt like sharing this small list regarding what they do when they are not the victim of brexuel harassment or under attack from the US and Russia:
1. The EU in fresh diplomatic push to ‘raise global ambition’ on climate change.
2. The European Union and nine other countries, including the US and Russia, approved an international agreement on Thursday (14 February) that will prohibit commercial vessels from fishing in the Arctic in order to preserve the region’s fragile ecosystem.
3. The European Parliament approved on Thursday (14 February) the proposal to screen foreign investment at EU level, clearing the path for closer monitoring of third country companies wanting to invest in the EU’s critical sectors.
4. The European Commission has today adopted the increased Erasmus+ Annual Work Programme for 2019, allocating an additional €251 million to the already planned €3 billion budget for the year.
5. The European Parliament adopted yesterday the final text of the Cross-border Payments Regulation. The Regulation will make intra-EU payments in euro cheaper across the entire EU.
6. The European Commission today announced an investment of €116.1 million for the latest integrated projects to be funded. The funding will support projects in Austria, Bulgaria, Czechia, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Portugal and Slovenia.
7. Freedom. As of tomorrow, new EU rules to cut costs and formalities for citizens living outside their home country will start to apply across the European Union.
8. The EU is introducing a set of temporary (up to Dec 2019) and limited measures to ensure basic road freight and road passenger connectivity in order to mitigate the most severe disruption in the event that the UK leaves the EU with no deal.
Okay, that last one was Brexit related, but it is good to know that at least someone is properly prepared in this mess.
Servant of the Omnissiah
Globalism's nice. Just that this is the worst sort of globalism to exist.
And that's pretty much Why We Can't Have Nice Things.
I hold the secrets of the machine.
I've heard someone is trying to get Article 13 through again, is that true?
"Get through" isn't really the right word. The final version of the law is now done and next they will be voting on it.
You're probably right.
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn