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A thread to talk about news and politics affecting Europe as a whole, rather than just politics within specific European countries.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

As with other OTC threads, off-topic posts may be thumped or edited by the moderators.

    Original first post 
Spinned off from the British Politics Thread. Basically a thread where we talk about news and politics that affect Europe as a whole rather than certain countries in it.

Anyway BBC News section for Europe Based news.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 9th 2024 at 3:24:05 PM

MrsRatched Judging you from Nowhere Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Judging you
#276: Jan 2nd 2012 at 3:40:11 PM

That's not actually accurate, heck

Haw Haw Haw
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#277: Jan 2nd 2012 at 3:42:46 PM

So, I went and counted them. Out of the 27 members of the EU,

7 are monarchies: Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Belgium, the UK, Spain, Sweden and Denmark; and

20 are republics: Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Austria, Slovenia, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Cyprus, Italy, Malta, Portugal, France, Ireland and Germany. When Croatia joins next year, we'll have 21 republics.

edited 2nd Jan '12 3:44:16 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#278: Jan 2nd 2012 at 3:44:08 PM

That is one thing I completely forgot about when you guys were discussing this — the monarchs.

I mean seriously, though... that's... a thing to think about.

edited 2nd Jan '12 3:46:05 PM by ohsointocats

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#279: Jan 2nd 2012 at 3:46:47 PM

I honestly don't see how the 7 monarchies among us could cause their monarchs to have any powers, even nominal ones, if the entire EU were integrated into a single nation. I don't see how that minority could have such influence in this matter.

edited 2nd Jan '12 3:47:06 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#280: Jan 2nd 2012 at 3:47:33 PM

[up][up][up][up]It's a bit more complex, of course but it seems true enough for me. JC was Franco's designated successor, and he had no problem to be at his side when the dictator was still alive. And then, the blanket ban to investigations into the Franco era that's still there in Spain... JC would deserve more admiration if he had turned right around after Franco's death and had the francoist scum prosecuted.

[up][up][up]On a completely unrelated note, I'm glad to finally see "republic" used in its correct sense. Silly Americans...

[up][up]Not really complicated. The monarchs remain monarchs of their states, even when those are part of an European federation. The federal level is completely republican. The main problem is there never should be an European federation as far as I'm concernedtongue

edited 2nd Jan '12 3:48:50 PM by Octo

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
lordGacek Since: Jan, 2001
#281: Jan 2nd 2012 at 3:51:01 PM

As we all know, Kings are a step below Emperors in the feudal pecking order, thus the problem of many monarchies can be worked around by transforming the Union into the Empire. cool

Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#282: Jan 2nd 2012 at 3:52:48 PM

Well. I have said before that I would be content with the EU if it turned into the Holy European Empire of German Nation. Under the House of Habsburg of course[lol]

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
lordGacek Since: Jan, 2001
#283: Jan 2nd 2012 at 3:54:34 PM

You know, the Ottons were probably the last Germans I'd feel comfortably under, so I might give it a pass. Too bad they weren't Habsburg. cool

edited 2nd Jan '12 3:55:04 PM by lordGacek

Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#284: Jan 2nd 2012 at 3:58:22 PM

Haha, well, you can hardly get back in history more and have it still be German. Henry the Fowler used the title "German King" first... Well, uh, how about the Wettins? They used to be Kings of Poland after all tongue

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
lordGacek Since: Jan, 2001
#285: Jan 2nd 2012 at 4:05:32 PM

Wettins were liked... you know, all the Large Ham Boisterous Bruiser thing they had, they fit well. As far as I know, they've also got one of the better claims to Polish crown. The others could be Romanoffs, but they are dead, enforced by a foreign power, and not liked either.

Okay, I give you that one. Wettin Emperor, were he a man like his XVIII Century ancestors, could be a guy I'd be fine with. cool

edit: is it IMPERIAL THREAD HIJACK? Or just a facet of MONARCHIC?

edited 2nd Jan '12 4:15:11 PM by lordGacek

MrsRatched Judging you from Nowhere Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Judging you
#286: Jan 2nd 2012 at 4:11:58 PM

[up][up][up][up]It's a bit more complex, of course but it seems true enough for me. JC was Franco's designated successor, and he had no problem to be at his side when the dictator was still alive. And then, the blanket ban to investigations into the Franco era that's still there in Spain... JC would deserve more admiration if he had turned right around after Franco's death and had the francoist scum prosecuted.

It was nearly impossible to overthrow Franco, thanks to the Allies policies and the international background as well as the situation in the country, so Bourbons thought it was the best way to restore the monarchy, but Juan Carlos visited many, many people on the opossittion as a Prince to plan what it will be the Spanish Transition, Juan Carlos was the key and that's totally unarguable, so, don't mess with him

Haw Haw Haw
Inhopelessguy Since: Apr, 2011
#287: Jan 2nd 2012 at 4:46:28 PM

@ Best Of. Indeed so. Therefore, they, as Octo suggested, remain heads of their respected states (and possibly a Council of Monarchs), and simply have limited powers, e.g. siging EC Directives into law, state opening of Europarl, etc.

edited 2nd Jan '12 4:46:48 PM by Inhopelessguy

Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#288: Jan 2nd 2012 at 4:47:18 PM

No. Nothing on the federal level.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#289: Jan 2nd 2012 at 4:50:18 PM

I really don't see how the dozens of millions of Europeans who don't want a monarchy and are happy to not have one in their country now would somehow accept that laws affecting them would be signed by monarch in a federal EU.

There's no question about it. The EU, were it to become a single nation, would have to be a republic.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Inhopelessguy Since: Apr, 2011
#290: Jan 2nd 2012 at 4:55:00 PM

Hmm, yeah. I suppose so. In that case, the monarchs would remain heads of their states, but have no actual presence in the Union of Europa.

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#291: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:01:54 PM

They'd basically become rich celebrities and nothing more.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Inhopelessguy Since: Apr, 2011
#292: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:07:43 PM

Well, it's not exactly like there's going to be an EC Directive to ban all super-rich celebrities, now? tongue

MrsRatched Judging you from Nowhere Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Judging you
#293: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:17:09 PM

Jesus Lord of the Saint Pancake, how this Federal Europe project is driftin onto marxism

Haw Haw Haw
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#294: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:17:31 PM

Frankly, I think that most of the property of the royals should be given to that country's national bank and possibly used for something like Norway's "Oil Fund."

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
MrsRatched Judging you from Nowhere Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Judging you
#295: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:18:36 PM

Now we landed onto Stalinism [down]

Haw Haw Haw
Flyboy Decemberist from the United States Since: Dec, 2011
Decemberist
#296: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:20:17 PM

That's not Stalinism. It may be Marxism, though. I don't know that this is a bad thing, though.

I'd say that doing away with the monarchy should be up to the state in question, though. It would be bad for a federalized Europe to just start destroying cultural institutions like a dickwad.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."
MrsRatched Judging you from Nowhere Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Judging you
#297: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:22:47 PM

I'm sorry, i'm a monarchist, liberal though, but monarchist

Haw Haw Haw
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#298: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:25:28 PM

Hey, keep your royals if you want, just make sure they're not signing laws on the federal level (you can make them sign the laws of your autonomous region or whatever it is that would replace the countries that we used to have.)

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Flyboy Decemberist from the United States Since: Dec, 2011
Decemberist
#299: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:29:12 PM

Theoretically you could have a "head of state" council, and those countries without monarchs (or who don't want to put their monarchs on the council) can put an elected president or something on instead...

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."
Inhopelessguy Since: Apr, 2011
#300: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:29:36 PM

Well, I think the ex-nations would be 'states'.

At the basic level, there would be four levels of government;

Council —> Region —> State (ex-national assembly) —> Europarl

So, the roles of the royals in the Republic of European States is limited to that of the states. In effect, no change for the royals.

[up]Good idea. A Council of Heads.

edited 2nd Jan '12 5:30:09 PM by Inhopelessguy


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