TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The growing problem of inscrutable titles and text

Go To

CBanana Tall, Dark and Bishoujo Since: Jan, 2001
#126: Jul 5th 2011 at 8:59:58 AM

[up] Some fans think it should be allowed to be inclusive while other fans think it should be left to Japanese works or those that are obviously inspired by them. As there's no consensus or a hard line separating Japanese works stylistically between their non-Japanese counterparts, right now people have left it alone.

and that's how Equestria was made!
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#127: Jul 5th 2011 at 9:10:16 AM

Well, we can't just let it lie. And since FE isn't going to change the name anytime soon, we may as well treat Girl Love like "Queer Romance in Japan," which is what Yuri Genre sounds like. A few other people suggested that here.

Though we should probably start a new thread in TRS rather than trying to make the decision here.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#128: Jul 5th 2011 at 9:13:50 AM

Every time we try to do that the thread mysteriously vanishes. Let's leave it as is for a few months and worry about it later.

edited 5th Jul '11 9:15:11 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#129: Jul 5th 2011 at 9:18:07 AM

I'm worried that the more we wait, the more likely one of our detractors will find the threads and use them as one more piece of evidence against us, or at least against Fast Eddie.

edited 5th Jul '11 9:18:18 AM by chihuahua0

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#130: Jul 5th 2011 at 9:20:04 AM

Starting the new thread under the title "NOT about the rename" might help. Just a suggestion.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#131: Jul 5th 2011 at 9:29:50 AM

Still, the threads "mysteriously disappearing" further sets a bad precedent for the wiki. I'm just saying from a reputation viewpoint.

This entire incident is probably going to be an example on how to handle changes.

edited 5th Jul '11 9:30:17 AM by chihuahua0

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#132: Jul 5th 2011 at 3:42:43 PM

I was going to open a thread on soft splitting the examples between main element (Runs in a Yuri mag or main draw of the series) and Secondary element (Nanoha, Strike Witches, Maria Holic, Queens Blade ect.) like whats going on in the Harem Genre thread (and to match The Other Wiki's splitting)

But if its going to get deleted then nvm...

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
KrisMahai Hm? Since: Jan, 2013
Hm?
#133: Jul 5th 2011 at 11:11:31 PM

^ I would say make it clear it's about splitting in the title and not about the rename, and also make it clear in the OP, and you'll probably be fine. I'm pretty sure it's just the issue of it being renamed that's closed.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#134: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:12:47 PM

Okay, I think Fast Eddie is taking his "no non-English in trope titles" way too strictly, cause Pale Haired Strange Kuudere got cut within an hour of its (admittedly) premature launch (ironic, given that Tiny Tyrannical Tsundere is already up and running for weeks with no complaints). At this rate, even Kuudere and Tsundere will get cut.

Thoughts?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#135: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:16:15 PM

[up]Actually, I have to agree with him that it was a bad name. I disagree completely with cutting the page instead of renaming it, but it was not a good name for non-anime fans.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#136: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:20:29 PM

The trope is a strictly anime-specific character type, however.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
MetaFour AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN from A Place (Old Master)
AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN
#137: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:22:20 PM

I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the other -dere's get cut eventually, but I think Tsundere has caught on enough outside the anime fandom to deserve keeping.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#138: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:23:08 PM

Seriously?.... just cut out of the blue? WTF.

[up]No. Just... No we should not cut the Dere tropes...... They are very important tropes.

Seriousy the Hateraid for anime is really getting out of hand and stupid.

edited 7th Jul '11 1:33:29 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#139: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:23:42 PM

[up][up]"Cut" is the real problem there - I wouldn't care if they were renamed, but cutting a legitimate trope because Eddie dislikes the name is kind of a disturbing precedent.

edited 7th Jul '11 1:23:54 PM by nrjxll

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#140: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:32:21 PM

Are you certain that it was only the name? If it got an "admittedly, premature launch", then the name was probably only part of the problems it had.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#141: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:38:38 PM

The "premature launch" was in regards to polishing up the description and example listing only. Eddie explicitly gave "english titles, please" as his sole reason for the cut.

I'd like to make opinion clear: Though Fast Eddie (with Janitor, too) owns the site, he does not own the tropes (and neither do we, BTW) that it collects and describes. Unilaterally using admin fiat to decide what a trope's definition/name should be in the complete absence of a Flame War / Edit War over the matter is overly/unnecessarily draconian. To quote Madrugada:

In terms of trope names, page images, trope division and such, I'll tell you what it takes to get an admin fiat decision: 1) an edit war over it, or 2) a direct request from a mod for him to step in.

edited 7th Jul '11 1:48:07 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Angeldog2437 from New York Since: Jun, 2010
#142: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:47:32 PM

[up] That's my opinion too. I know he owns the site, but cutting tropes that should have probably only needed a rename or being unlaunched seems pretty harsh. Like trying to kill a fly with a hammer.

Cosman246 Another person from Cascadia Since: May, 2009
Another person
#143: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:53:19 PM

If applied as a precedent, all anime-specific tropes could be destroyed, thus making this website Eurocentric and limiting its scope.

If you eat a live frog in the morning, nothing worse will happen to either of you for the rest of the day.
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#144: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:54:10 PM

[up][up] I agree too. This "anti-anime" thing is getting too out of hand. We don't want our minor hatedom to start saying that Fast Eddie "hates anime", or we may turn off otaku.

It's a good thing the mirror wiki has a large anime bias though. It acts as a reflection of our policy, and acts as something we don't want to mirror.

I'm just worried is that if Fast Eddie takes it too far, someone will be bugged enough that he'll Start My Own—and succeed. All it takes is some proper funding, a programmer, and knowledge of how to avoid our pitfalls from the get-go. We can't go the way of My Space by having the competition suck our readers away.

edited 7th Jul '11 1:57:06 PM by chihuahua0

BrightBlueInk It's all a conspiracy. from Colorado, USA Since: Jan, 2001
It's all a conspiracy.
#145: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:58:20 PM

Wait, Pale Haired Strange Kuudere got cut? That's a legit trope, though, one we don't have a page for. It might not be anime-only one (although since it's expies of Rei I think it might be), but...even if it's not, that's still not a good reason to cut the page. Retool, maybe, rename okay, but...not cut.

I can understand wanting to make sure tropes that aren't anime-only be anime-centric, but things are definitely going too far these days.

Current project: Cleaning up the Chrono Crusade examples one at a time. God help me.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#146: Jul 7th 2011 at 2:01:32 PM

I may be partially to blame for that page getting cut, as it was launched with the same pic as Fountain of Expies and I made an IP thread about it. Now, that being said, were the two pages dissimilar enough to warrant their separate existence?

edited 7th Jul '11 2:01:57 PM by Willbyr

Cosman246 Another person from Cascadia Since: May, 2009
Another person
#147: Jul 7th 2011 at 2:02:25 PM

[up][up][up]Actually, I was contemplating that. I'm not going to do so unless I find the necessary resources and, even then, only if this Naz—er, harsh behavior goes any further.

edited 7th Jul '11 2:02:44 PM by Cosman246

If you eat a live frog in the morning, nothing worse will happen to either of you for the rest of the day.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#148: Jul 7th 2011 at 2:04:02 PM

[up][up] One is a subtrope of the other. Subtropes are allowed when a specific instance becomes too numerous to become it's own trope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#149: Jul 7th 2011 at 2:05:07 PM

Again, the fact that it was cut is my big concern too. I honestly couldn't care if every trope with a name derived from anime was renamed - in fact, I'd probably be cheering - but seeing them cut would be a disaster. I mean, why couldn't this trope have simply been renamed, or retooled if there was something else wrong with it?

Cosman246 Another person from Cascadia Since: May, 2009
Another person
#150: Jul 7th 2011 at 2:05:09 PM

[up][up][up][up]I think so, given that this particular fountain has been referenced many times, without a good infrastructure—and that many of these are not simply expies (as they have complications of their own), but examples of an archetype

edited 7th Jul '11 2:05:27 PM by Cosman246

If you eat a live frog in the morning, nothing worse will happen to either of you for the rest of the day.

Total posts: 1,539
Top