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TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#1251: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:46:39 AM

I see no problem with treating loanwords that have been with us for centuries differently than "loanwords" which debuted in 2003.

edited 15th Jul '11 9:46:57 AM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1252: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:47:19 AM

He's also locking threads that are unrelated to his renames just because they happen to involve terms he renamed. >_< We were talking about splitting a genre from a character type and he just locked it with a link to a completely unrelated post.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#1253: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:47:52 AM

Chihuahua, break out of your "blame Eddie and it ain't proven" track. It is a problem we are going to solve.

edited 15th Jul '11 9:48:01 AM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#1254: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:48:48 AM

Looked to me like it was about the naming thing.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Mandemo Since: Apr, 2010
#1255: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:49:23 AM

Alright, so Manga/Anime fans are going to be have their own niche in wiki for their own jargon. Shoudlw e same for comic books, fanfictions, movies etc. etc. etc.? Because when you give one side special rights, you must justificate why not some other too?

edited 15th Jul '11 9:51:15 AM by Mandemo

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1256: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:49:31 AM

Eddie, read threads before you lock them please? Bishoujo Genre was talking about splitting a genre from a character type. The post you linked has nothing to do with it.

Bishoujo is both a genre, and a type of character common in that genre. We were talking about splitting it into two and what the titles of those two things should be.

edited 15th Jul '11 9:50:35 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
RainyDaze Eheheh... from UK Since: Jul, 2010
Eheheh...
#1257: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:49:59 AM

Deus ex Machina? Fine, really. The whole Ind ex Machina thing is probably going too far.

Err... but several people have asked you to provide evidence there is a problem. No evidence is forthcoming. 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' mentalities aren't surprising.

edited 15th Jul '11 9:51:31 AM by RainyDaze

Now collecting White-Haired Pretty Girls.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#1258: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:50:53 AM

[up][up][up][up] No Eddie, it wasn't. It was about splitting it between the character type and the series.

Also, again, if Japanese media treats a trope different, then split away. Meganekko and Glasses Girl are treated very differently by Eastern and Western media, respectively. Tsundere is not.

Someone start a TRS thread for splitting Meganekko. EDIT: Done.

edited 15th Jul '11 9:57:39 AM by Discar

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#1259: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:57:02 AM

Unlocked that thread. I still think this discussion impacts that effort in a big way.

For the "Is it a problem" questions: Yes. I'm basing that on complaints seen around the web and my personal take on the matter, that having to look up and plow through anime stuff is a complete waste of time and an un-fun activity for people — like me — who don't care to know more about anime.

If we have to do something similar for other interest groups (like comic-heads), we can. Most likely, it won't be necessary.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#1260: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:57:31 AM

@Eddie on "What's wrong with that?" as referring to "Basicly Same Trope But With Japanese Name And Some Tacked On Only In Japanese Media Justification." Isn't what's wrong with that the fact that that's just making it The Same But In Another Media?

I'm still on the side of the existing renaming rules that state "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". When there is a push to rename a trope the burden of proof is always on the side that wants the rename, or indeed, other major change, not the side saying it doesn't need to be changed.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1261: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:58:13 AM

@Eddie: Like I said before (whether here or on another thread), that seems like a fair compromise. However, I'd to note, as others did, that not all the Japanese trope names are anime fanspeak/jargon; there quite a few among them that are standardized terms in both Japan's media industry and in the Western official publishing circles.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#1262: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:58:16 AM

Can you give us links to some of these places you've seen complaints? Now I'm curious to see what these sources are.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#1263: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:59:36 AM

[up][up] My undestanding of the proposal is that the Japanese-industry specific articles will keep their current names, just as long as they remain limited to discussion of Japanese media.

Tropes that are not specific to Japanese media would get renamed, but Japanese fan jargon can be used on Japanese media examples.

edited 15th Jul '11 10:00:25 AM by Meeble

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
RainyDaze Eheheh... from UK Since: Jul, 2010
Eheheh...
#1264: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:59:52 AM

Having to look up and plough through any foreign or semi-foreign languages is something lots of people probably don't want to do.

On an unrelated note, how much of the Deus ex Machina page is necessary and how many belongs on Analysis or something? I fail to see how the paragraph about aediles is needed...

Now collecting White-Haired Pretty Girls.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#1265: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:01:24 AM

[up][up] And that second part is the problem. If a name is working outside Japanese media (or whatever language its named in), why does it need a new one?

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#1266: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:02:13 AM

SA, reddit, youtube commentaries for our videos, that mirror place, other places. It doesn't really matter where the complaints are coming from. It's a problem.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
RainyDaze Eheheh... from UK Since: Jul, 2010
Eheheh...
#1267: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:03:58 AM

Reddit I've never been on, but SA and Youtube comments? As for the mirror... they've already replaced all the terms, regardless of whether or not it's a good idea, so they're kind of biased, don't you think?

Now collecting White-Haired Pretty Girls.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#1268: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:04:05 AM

What are those first two, exactly? And youtube video commentors are trolls.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#1269: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:06:49 AM

@Discar: By the metric of inbounds, wicks, and misuse, those titles may very well be working. Those are the only metrics we have for that.

However, Eddie has indicated that the problem is in an area that is not measurable by our current guidelines, and thus requires a solution that doesn't follow the standard TRS procedure. Repeating that it's working based on our current guidelines is Completely Missing The Point, and will just continue to cause this thread to move in circles.

I've been as big a proponent as any for adherence to the guidelines in the past, but you have to be able to admit that there will be corner cases that the guidelines can't cover. That's where we are at with this issue.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
MetaFour AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN from A Place (Old Master)
AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN
#1270: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:08:56 AM

^^ Something Awful, reddit.

Wait, FE, I thought our attitude towards these folks was "Haters gonna hate"? Why are we giving credence to their criticism now, and specifically on the issue of Japanese titles?

edited 15th Jul '11 10:10:39 AM by MetaFour

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#1271: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:09:40 AM

Reddit, for those who don't know (myself included).

SA is Something Awful, a place known for a negative opinion of TV Tropes (as well as producing some trolling attacks on us).

Edit: Ninja'd by a metaphor Meta Four.

edited 15th Jul '11 10:10:18 AM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#1272: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:10:09 AM

That's it, basically. It's a judgment call. Some will agree, some won't, but I think it has to be done.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#1273: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:11:12 AM

I still think haters are gonna hate, and they can just get bent for their troubles, I just agree with them on this issue. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

edited 15th Jul '11 10:13:01 AM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#1274: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:12:17 AM

Then this is a massive change that needs to be brought up on a crowner and a headline.

For the record, I'm of the "you can't please everyone" and "haters gonna hate" mentality. Trying to appease people who just glance at the site and say that its stupid isn't going to get them into it, and it will alienate the people who do visit the site.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
RainyDaze Eheheh... from UK Since: Jul, 2010
Eheheh...
#1275: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:12:34 AM

So, their opinions are only worthwhile when you happen to agree with them? Either they're worth listening to entirely or they're not. Ignoring them except for when they happen to fit with your own opinions doesn't seem the most sound move. ._.

Now collecting White-Haired Pretty Girls.

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