It may be not be the most clear trope in history, but it's still just as much of a trope as Comically Missing the Point is. Likewise, it's partially an Index as well.
Sues will always appear. They're common, but they're also subjective. Likewise, whether or not it's a trope isn't what this topic's about. The only reason it was brought up was about if the name is clear or not.
Quest 64 thread
To be fair, it even says that it can't be clearly defined.
On-topic: I'm mostly in the same boat of "if you can't find a clear English word for it, leave it" here. And with that tidbit, I'm going back to lurking.
Quest 64 threadThe definition I use for Mary Sue is "a character who the author treats as more important than the plot." That said, just being able to recognize one is enough.
Anyway, we probably should rerail this.
edited 12th Jul '11 10:19:09 AM by INUH
Infinite Tree: an experimental story
You get a
just for the use of the word "rerail." Although I also agree with everything else.
So, again, according to our renaming guidelines, any questionable tropes should individually be brought to TRS. Any problems with that?
Yes, I sound like a broken record, but no one seems to be listening.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.That also sounds good to me. Also according to the guidelines, we should be allowed to challenges the renaming of Girls' Love to Yuri Genre. That means no zapping "rename Yuri Genre" TRS threads on sight.
edited 12th Jul '11 11:17:43 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
It's being zapped because Fast Eddie has specified multiple times that it's never going to be changed. Whatever the reasons are at this point, it's just best to drop it, atleast for quite some time. Hell, you might as well never bring it up again. Some things need to be let go, after all.
edited 12th Jul '11 12:26:49 PM by Hydronix
Quest 64 thread![]()
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And this inexplicably unilateral action on his part sets a dangerously bad precedent that should not be allowed to go unanswered. He is violating his own trope-renaming rules without good justification; how are we supposed to respect those same rules?
@Eddie: It was one (or two, at the most) against around 10 or so, with the latter having managed to give more than enough reasons to not rename the article - or at least maintain "Girls Love" as part of it - as well as debunk most if not all of your major arguments... and then you, without any prior warning or discussion, say "Simple change made". No reasons cited at all, and not even allowing discussion on the topic. I fail to see how that is not unilateral.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.I suspect people would bring it up less, Eddie, if you could articulate a clearer reasoning behind your decisions. (I also suspect I know why you aren't doing so, which is unfortunate, because it puts you in a bit of a bad position.)
But this is getting off topic. Starting TRS topics on each trope seems to be the way to go about this. Maybe we should move this thread to Special Efforts and start coming up with a list of tropes we need to look at for this?
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)This
is not "clear reasoning."
Now, I honestly agree with the change. The simplest solution was to say "all right, Girl's Love is just lesbian romance in Japan. Let's rename it to make that more clear and call it a day." But you didn't explain any of that, pissed off a lot of people, and suddenly we had a lot of examples that were wrong.
EDIT: Also, a special efforts thread to identify names that need repair is a bad idea. It's just going to devolve into more back and forth. And if a good reason is found, then its going to be put on TRS, and all the previously stated reasons will be brought up again.
Just bring them to TRS individually. There are not so many of these tropes that its some huge, daunting process.
edited 12th Jul '11 4:43:32 PM by Discar
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.Yes. All of them. That's the same as what TRS is for now. You see something you don't like, you start a thread for it. If you're right, it gets fixed (eventually). If you're wrong, then there's no problem. Easy.
We've already got 1863 outstanding threads. An extra 50 or so isn't going to hurt.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.![]()
In that case, I'd like to know how exactly do you plan for us to keep track of the overall efforts to remove confusing names. TRS isn't exactly the most organized of the subfora; stuff has slipped through the cracks there in the past.
I'd advise not bringing that up again. I think everyone's temper is probably too heated for that to get a satisfactory resolution at the moment.
edited 12th Jul '11 5:03:50 PM by TotemicHero
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)What do you mean, keep track of it? Removing confusing names is part of the point of TRS. Yes, things slip through the cracks. But I really don't think starting a special efforts thread listing all the potentially confusing names is going to help at all.
People launch new tropes—with or without YKTTW—every day with confusing names. And when someone notices, they get dragged into TRS and discussed.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.As in keep track of the progress we're making towards the goal of cleaning up pre-existing (note the emphasis) tropes with obscure and confusing names. Not sure what new tropes out of YKTTW have to do with this - that's a separate issue.
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)

Wait. You're saying that Mary Sue has a definition?
Fact is that it really doesn't. It isn't a trope anymore, so much as a collection of quasi-related baggage used to whine about characters you don't like.